LraStn Posted March 27 Share #1  Posted March 27 Advertisement (gone after registration) I plan to buy an M7 in the next day or so. I have been using M6 non-TTL but the flash sync speed of 1/50 is too limiting for my needs. With my Q3/Q, or M10, I typically hold a Profoto A1 in my left hand, and fire it from a trigger on the hotshoe. I only need one flash for three cameras that way and I can control direction and even change exposure with this method by just moving the flash around. I zone focus at F8 or f11 so I don't have to wait on the Q's to focus. Yes they are fast, but not fast enough. Although I like the minimal look of the Profoto Transceivers, their plastic connector is not strong and get knocked about and damaged too easily in my fast-paced event work. Enter the larger, uglier, cheaper Aodelan trigger with locking mechanism. So far so good with these. Can anyone please help me understand if I will be able to use M7 with Aodelan trigger at speeds of up to 1/250 without having curtain sync issues? AI says that I can, but I want to be more sure as the camera is a private sale and not returnable. I know with Metz I can get sync speeds of up to 1/1000 but I can't put another thing in my bag and 1/250 will be plenty since I'm not trying to shoot wide open. Thanks!  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 27 Posted March 27 Hi LraStn, Take a look here M7 and HSS. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
TomB_tx Posted March 27 Share #2 Â Posted March 27 I've never tried it, but the M7 manual does say it can work HSS at manually set 1/250 with a compatible flash and SCA-3502 adapter. Exposure is manual for this - not TTL. I haven't really used flash for 50 years, so this is outside my expertise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LraStn Posted March 27 Author Share #3  Posted March 27 @TomB_tx Thanks- I always shoot manual so that's no issue at all. I'm not familiar with the adapter, I'll look it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted March 27 Share #4 Â Posted March 27 BTW - you can probably find a pdf of the M7 manual on line to look at the details it gives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LraStn Posted March 27 Author Share #5  Posted March 27 @TomB_tx Thanks, I will look into that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LraStn Posted March 27 Author Share #6  Posted March 27 4 hours ago, LraStn said: I plan to buy an M7 in the next day or so. I have been using M6 non-TTL but the flash sync speed of 1/50 is too limiting for my needs. With my Q3/Q, or M10, I typically hold a Profoto A1 in my left hand, and fire it from a trigger on the hotshoe. I only need one flash for three cameras that way and I can control direction and even change exposure with this method by just moving the flash around. I zone focus at F8 or f11 so I don't have to wait on the Q's to focus. Yes they are fast, but not fast enough. Although I like the minimal look of the Profoto Transceivers, their plastic connector is not strong and get knocked about and damaged too easily in my fast-paced event work. Enter the larger, uglier, cheaper Aodelan trigger with locking mechanism. So far so good with these. Can anyone please help me understand if I will be able to use M7 with Aodelan trigger at speeds of up to 1/250 without having curtain sync issues? AI says that I can, but I want to be more sure as the camera is a private sale and not returnable. I know with Metz I can get sync speeds of up to 1/1000 but I can't put another thing in my bag and 1/250 will be plenty since I'm not trying to shoot wide open. Thanks!  Updated to add, I linked to the wrong trigger, the non-HSS version. This is the HSS trigger. Of course there is also the Profoto Leica Connect option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LraStn Posted March 27 Author Share #7  Posted March 27 Advertisement (gone after registration) And, this is the answer AI gave but I'm not sure how much I trust it. M7 doesn't shoot up to 1/8000s for instance. The Leica M7 is not directly compatible with Profoto Air remotes in TTL mode because it lacks a hot shoe that supports TTL communication. However, you can use Profoto lights with the Leica M7 in manual mode by using a Profoto Air Remote or similar trigger that supports manual control. For example, the Profoto Air Remote can be used to manually control Profoto lights, but it would require a Nikon fit trigger for compatibility with the M7's hot shoe, and only in manual mode. And Yes, you can achieve shutter speeds up to 1/250th with your Profoto A1 flash in normal sync mode. However, if you need faster shutter speeds, the Profoto A1 supports High-Speed Sync (HSS), allowing you to shoot at speeds beyond the typical sync speed, such as up to 1/8000s, though this may require adjustments for optimal results. For the Leica M7, which has a mechanical shutter, you can use the flash at speeds up to 1/250th without HSS, as this is typically the maximum sync speed for mechanical shutters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimesmaybe Posted March 27 Share #8  Posted March 27 3 hours ago, LraStn said: Updated to add, I linked to the wrong trigger, the non-HSS version. This is the HSS trigger. are these triggers for nikon and canon? even within the same brand (in my case canon) the modern HSS protocol is not backward compatible with the older film canon cameras. i need to use period trigger and flash to use HSS in my case, i gave up and just got a good canon film body with fast native sync speed (1/250) or i take something with a leaf shutter Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/420073-m7-and-hss/?do=findComment&comment=5777951'>More sharing options...
LraStn Posted March 28 Author Share #9  Posted March 28 What is period trigger, can you link to it? Thanks! I got an R8 which has native sync speed of 1/250s. So I will try that before giving up but I want to keep digging because I love shooting the M bodies. 😕 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimesmaybe Posted March 28 Share #10  Posted March 28 23 minutes ago, LraStn said: What is period trigger, can you link to it? Thanks! I got an R8 which has native sync speed of 1/250s. So I will try that before giving up but I want to keep digging because I love shooting the M bodies. 😕 sorry i was only referring to canon and compatible HSS trigger for its older film bodies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 28 Share #11  Posted March 28 (edited) I'd be surprised if the M7's HSS mode works with the Profoto system. The HSS capability dates back to 2002 and was specifically designed to work with the old Metz 54MZ with the optional SCA 3502 foot. It was a bit finicky even then and, I think, depended upon having a flash or adapter foot of the correct generation. (It was also a bit limited in its effectiveness, the pulsed output being quite low power and making HSS suitable only for filling fairly close subjects.) I certainly wouldn't buy an M7 with the expectation that HSS will work with modern flashes – you should really check it out first. Wilson @wlaidlaw has fiddled around with various flashes on the M7 over the years. Maybe he will be able to advise on the current state of play? Edited March 28 by wattsy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 28 Share #12  Posted March 28 HSS certainly works on the Leica (Nissin built) SF60 and probably the SF40 as well. This is because Nissin in a very well thought out move, incorporated 3502 backwards compatibility in their flashes. However as Ian says above the pulse strength is quite low to keep the capacitor charge level high enough for multiple firings of the flash tube. This particular function was designed for the large SCA type Metz flashes like the 76-MZ-5, which have a very large capacitor. So if you intend to really exploit the HSS capability of the M7, I think a secondhand Metz 76 might be the route to go. If you get an SCA 3502 revision 5 control module, you would find that it will work on Leica Digital cameras as well, albeit with some reservations in that the split of adjustment functions between the camera and the flash is not as logical or extensive, as one might hope. I recall having an interesting "discussion" at Photokina with the Metz folk, having just bought a new Metz MZ 54I and SCA3502 revision 5, where Metz said you could adjust the flash power from the camera and also other parameters. I proved conclusively to them that this just did not work on my M8, like their website claimed it did. Red faces at Metz and they arranged for me to be refunded for my purchase, which I left with them at their stand. Metz seemed to have mislaid their "mojo" in the post millennium period and even Leica lost patience with them, after the less than epic SF58 with its non-upgradable firmware and wobbly/prone to wear plastic foot and the later mediocre SF62. Metz's camera flash division was next door to Leica, when they were both at Solms, in the same small light industrial estate. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LraStn Posted March 28 Author Share #13  Posted March 28 Thanks @wattsy and @wlaidlaw. Very insightful. What I want is actually to use a remote for off-camera Profoto flash. Do either of you happen to have any knowledge about the Profoto Connect Pro being compatible with M7? Note that I only need manual control, no TTL.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnakChan Posted March 28 Share #14  Posted March 28 I'm probably late to this but this is from my M7 manual - allows 1/250, 1/500 & 1/1000 if corresponding adapter is compatible. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/420073-m7-and-hss/?do=findComment&comment=5778139'>More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 28 Share #15  Posted March 28 (edited) 20 minutes ago, LraStn said: Thanks @wattsy and @wlaidlaw. Very insightful. What I want is actually to use a remote for off-camera Profoto flash. Do either of you happen to have any knowledge about the Profoto Connect Pro being compatible with M7? Note that I only need manual control, no TTL.  Yes, I realise that you want to use the flash off-camera, which is why I think it might be a big ask for the Profoto Connect to respect the old SCA 3502 protocols in full. I'm sure it will do TTL (as you know, there is a Leica version of the Profoto Connect) but I have my doubts about HSS. That said, Wilson's success with the Nissin SF60 suggests that the HSS capability has been carried through to more modern flashes than the designers of the M7 would have envisaged. Again though, unless someone can authoritatively state that they have used Profoto successfully at HSS speeds with the M7, you will need to check it out for yourself. Just another thought: if you could get away with 1/125, the Zeiss Ikon camera M-mount body will sync to that speed as standard. Edited March 28 by wattsy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 28 Share #16  Posted March 28 I would imagine the M7 will fire the Profoto flash from the hot shoe but no additional control or communication either way. Even though Leica use the Nikon pin out layout on their flashes, they opted to go with their own proprietary control and communication protocols. I have just recently been looking at this for my Hasselblad X2D-100C camera, which also use the Nikon pin out layout on the hot shoe. However Hasselblad, not offering any branded flashguns themselves, were quite happy to duplicate the Nikon control and communication protocols, so that the Nikon SB series flashguns are fully compatible. I have just bought a secondhand Nikon SB-910 Speedlight for my Hasselblad. I was advised not even to try any of my Leica flashes on the Hasselblad (Metz SF24, SF58 and Nissin SF40, SF60), as there was a slight risk of damage to what is quite an expensive camera. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 28 Share #17  Posted March 28 (edited) Just out of curiosity (I sold my last M7 about 10 years ago so have no skin in the game as such) I had a look at the Profoto website. If you read the technical specs for the Leica Connect Pro, it sounds unlikely, given the number of caveats, that it is going to do what you want it to do. But then again, if it is only the M11 that doesn't work in HSS mode, you might infer that all older cameras will? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 28 by wattsy Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/420073-m7-and-hss/?do=findComment&comment=5778144'>More sharing options...
LraStn Posted March 28 Author Share #18  Posted March 28 @wattsy @wlaidlaw I suppose the only way to know for sure is to conduct an experiment! Not sure I'll have time to do it anytime soon, but it may be worth a try. In the meantime, I may look into using a variable ND filter to help cut down the light. FWIW, my M6 works great with Profoto Air Remote and Aoledan triggers. But I don't have the Connect Pro.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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