The M review nobody asked for :)

[3D-Kraft.com]

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I have never overlooked the advantages of the optical viewfinder, but they do not outweigh the disadvantages by far. We could also, for example, evaluate the rangefinder blockage caused by larger lenses. But yes, that can of course be downplayed too, because there are areas of application in which small lenses without blockage are sufficient.

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[jaapv]

That is indeed true, but more of a hindrance to lens designers than to photographers I find, it is just a matter of using both eyes. Unless one is left eye dominant of course. 

[3D-Kraft.com]

"using both eyes" is not limited to an optical viewfinder.

[jaapv]

Indeed not. Although I seldom see it practiced outside the rangefinder world. 

[Chris W]

1 hour ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

I have never overlooked the advantages of the optical viewfinder, but they do not outweigh the disadvantages by far. 

If it's the right tool for you (whatever it is) there are very few (if any) disadvantages.

It's like saying a tractor isn't as fast or comfortable as a saloon car. You can't plow a field with a car.

If I need fast autofocus I'll buy a Sony or Nikon. I actually like working with a slower camera that employs a rangefinder patch. There is no other widely available camera that does that (Pixxi?).

For most of the photography I do, the M is perfect. Inconspicuous, candid photography. When an autofocus is hunting in low light, I actually find M focussing a lot faster.

[Nitnaros]

I have been shooting digital M‘s for a long time:

- M8, M9, M9-Mono, M10P and now M11

 with the exception of the M9 I still use all them

I like to photograph landscapes during hiking;

the availability of live view since the M10 makes all the difference for accurate framing for me. And now I can use lenses that the OVF doesn’t cover, both on the wide and the tele side.  Don’t want to rely on post processing and cropping and wasting pixels.

in contrast, I found the M9 landscape photographing experience very lacking w/o live view.

Btw, I have not recognized that live view doesn’t show 100% of sensor imaging. Maybe the visoflex has there a limitation.

the low weight of the system lets me pick from time to time the M over my Fuji GFX100S

 

Edited March 2 by Nitnaros

[jaapv]

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Actually the only camera that is suited for landscape is a 4x5 view camera 

[Robert Blanko]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

Actually the only camera that is suited for landscape is a 4x5 view camera 

Nah, every serious landscape photographer would choose at least 8x10 (see for instance here https://www.benhorne.com/cameras-and-lenses) :

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[DadDadDaddyo]

Having done a fair amount of 4x5 and 8x10 landscape photography, I'd have to say I can't recommend it to anyone who might be a) in a hurry,  b) seeking convenience,  or c) intolerant of error.

Here's what one must do, after setting up the tripod, and placing the camera.

1. Open the shutter. (There's a lever on the lens to open the leaf shutter so you can view and focus, since you can't do that with the shutter closed)

2. Open the diaphragm. (You'll probably want to do your initial focus at wide-open aperture)

3. Focus on selected subject element. (Using a loupe, possibly with your head under a cloth block out light hitting the ground glass, typically whilst fending off the comments of passersby)

4. Set diaphragm to working f/ stop, observe depth of focus with loupe, in front of and behind subject element focused on. 

5. Close the shutter. (Very important)

6. Slide a film holder containing unexposed film into the camera's spring back. (Exposed/Unexposed status indicated by the tab on the end of the slide, one side of which is dark, the other side light. You have to remember which side out you're using to indicate unexposed or exposed)

7. Pull out the film holder dark slide. (Did you remember to close the shutter? Did you set the shutter to the determined shutter speed?) 

8. Wait for the vital, perfect moment, then expose the photograph by tripping the shutter. (Did you cock the shutter?)

9. Reinsert the film holder dark slide, flipping it so that the tab on the slide indicates that the film in the holder has been exposed. 

10. Remove film holder.

I have left out entirely the steps that are involved in framing and perspective control using camera movements (which must be followed by checking focus and likely refocusing), not to mention metering the subject using a spot meter and determining exposure and calculating development compensation, if any. 

Skip the exact performance in detail of any one of the ten steps outlined above and your shot will be spoiled.

My own personal classic mistakes involve either a) forgetting to close the shutter following focusing, so that the moment I pull the dark slide I ruin the shot by exposing the film to an open shutter, or b) forgetting to reinsert the dark slide after exposure before pulling the film holder out of the spring back, or c) forgetting which side of the dark slide tab facing out means the film is exposed or unexposed, leaving aside the fact that the film holder itself has two sides, so you may have both sides currently unexposed, one side unexposed and one side exposed, or both sides exposed... all errors waiting to happen!)

I might complete 4 or 5 exposures in an afternoon, typically, sometimes maybe 6. If I hurry I'm much more likely to screw up. 

My old Hasselblad Medium Format camera is a technical wonder, not least because there are mechanical interlocks that physically prevent many of the potential errors outlined above. 

Compared to any of these, however,  the M Rangefinder shooting experience is a miracle of ease and convenience, though you do have to remember to remove the lens cap. 

Edited March 2 by DadDadDaddyo

[charlesphoto99]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Actually the only camera that is suited for landscape is a 4x5 view camera 

I think we're at the point that for some the only sufficient M will be one with an EVF, global electronic shutter, smooth as a baby's skin iso 100,000, and a 16-300mm, constant f1.4 zoom lens that is also compact and has AF. Because anything else will be a compromise to actually making a photograph, of any kind. 😏

Sure, there are some hard stop limitations with the M, and those typically reside outside the native lens limits - I'm not going to try and bolt on a 300 or 400mm lens to try and do sports or nature photography. But for the most part, the M is capable of most everything - though one has to try just a little bit harder than the typical PASM AF Zoom camera to achieve it, which is a large part of its enduring appeal, imo. It's limited to primes for the most part - so one might miss a shot changing lenses, or as I often like walk around with just one lens, have to work within that one lens window which can be a path to creativity and thinking outside the box. 

One reason I've bought - and subsequently returned - a Q is that I didn't find it any more compact or quick to use than an M. Same with the CL, which I have sitting in a bag barely used, despite loving the design of it (and a great template imo if Leica was to release an EVF-M). The basic M design, even if sometimes I have to extrapolate framing (and even focusing if a lens is out of calibration) is pretty unbeatable as a tool that I get to adjust (versus it adjusting for me) to make photographs with. 

[charlesphoto99]

1 hour ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Having done a fair amount of 4x5 and 8x10 landscape photography, I'd have to say I can't recommend it to anyone who might be a) in a hurry,  b) seeking convenience,  or c) intolerant of error.

Here's what one must do, after setting up the tripod, and placing the camera.

1. Open the shutter. (There's a lever on the lens to open the leaf shutter so you can view and focus, since you can't do that with the shutter closed)

2. Open the diaphragm. (You'll probably want to do your initial focus at wide-open aperture)

3. Focus on selected subject element. (Using a loupe, possibly with your head under a cloth block out light hitting the ground glass, typically whilst fending off the comments of passersby)

4. Set diaphragm to working f/ stop, observe depth of focus with loupe, in front of and behind subject element focused on. 

5. Close the shutter. (Very important)

6. Slide a film holder containing unexposed film into the camera's spring back. (Exposed/Unexposed status indicated by the tab on the end of the slide, one side of which is dark, the other side light. You have to remember which side out you're using to indicate unexposed or exposed)

7. Pull out the film holder dark slide. (Did you remember to close the shutter? Did you set the shutter to the determined shutter speed?) 

8. Wait for the vital, perfect moment, then expose the photograph by tripping the shutter. (Did you cock the shutter?)

9. Reinsert the film holder dark slide, flipping it so that the tab on the slide indicates that the film in the holder has been exposed. 

10. Remove film holder.

I have left out entirely the steps that are involved in framing and perspective control using camera movements (which must be followed by checking focus and likely refocusing), not to mention metering the subject using a spot meter and determining exposure and calculating development compensation, if any. 

Skip the exact performance in detail of any one of the ten steps outlined above and your shot will be spoiled.

My own personal classic mistakes involve either a) forgetting to close the shutter following focusing, so that the moment I pull the dark slide I ruin the shot by exposing the film to an open shutter, or b) forgetting to reinsert the dark slide after exposure before pulling the film holder out of the spring back, or c) forgetting which side of the dark slide tab facing out means the film is exposed or unexposed, leaving aside the fact that the film holder itself has two sides, so you may have both sides currently unexposed, one side unexposed and one side exposed, or both sides exposed... all errors waiting to happen!)

I might complete 4 or 5 exposures in an afternoon, typically, sometimes maybe 6. If I hurry I'm much more likely to screw up. 

My old Hasselblad Medium Format camera is a technical wonder, not least because there are mechanical interlocks that physically prevent many of the potential errors outlined above. 

Compared to any of these, however,  the M Rangefinder shooting experience is a miracle of ease and convenience, though you do have to remember to remove the lens cap. 

You also leave out all of the steps required AFTER the exposure - developing, printing, etc, and what can go wrong there. WE have it pretty easy these days, what with near view camera quality (medium at least) encapsulated within a compact 35mm body that can tackle most situations in a heartbeat, and then adjust to near 'perfection' on our computers within seconds. 

[jaapv]

On the other end of the spectrum,  I did quite a bit of wildlife with lenses up to 800 mm on M cameras since  1988. Not without success I may say …

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[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb charlesphoto99:

I think we're at the point that for some the only sufficient M will be one with an EVF, global electronic shutter, smooth as a baby's skin iso 100,000, and a 16-300mm, constant f1.4 zoom lens that is also compact and has AF. Because anything else will be a compromise to actually making a photograph, of any kind. 😏

Don't forget the IBIS and 8K video mode.

[charlesphoto99]

56 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Don't forget the IBIS and 8K video mode.

I knew I was forgetting something! Even better, I insist on it having 16K video and ICSC - in camera SteadyCam - and AZF - auto zone focusing - and HSSPM - hip shot street photographer mode. That way one will never miss those magical moments of people walking down the street looking at their cell phones. 

[pippy]

It might be hard for some folk here to believe it but the Leica came about precisely because one person who suffered from slightly poor health wanted to have a small, lightweight camera so that he could undertake landscape photography when he was strolling up and down mountains in the Tyrol...

IMO he did a fine job. As far as my particular type of 'landscape photography' is concerned there isn't a finer system available.

🙂

Philip.

Edited March 2 by pippy

[Chris W]

I took some nice, correctly framed landscape images on an M6 in the film days. No EVF, no live-view, no IBIS, no auto-focus.

Maybe through use I got used to how the final image would differ from the viewfinder (off set from the lens) and adjusted my framing before I took the shot? 

Also, I honestly think I rarely had absolutely crucial elements at the margins of the frame. And if the main subject (a building, a mountain, a horse) were slightly off centre it probably made the picture more interesting.

Edited March 2 by Chris W
Spelling

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb pippy:

...because one person who suffered from slightly poor health wanted to have a small, lightweight camera so that he could undertake landscape photography when he was strolling up and down mountains in the Tyrol...

IMO he did a fine job.

Looking back at the possibilities available 100 years ago, this was indeed a very significant development. But we live in 2025 and not 1925 any more.

vor 14 Minuten schrieb pippy:

As far as my particular type of 'landscape photography' is concerned there isn't a finer system available.

Fortunately today we have more options to find the right tool for the desired purpose.

 

[pippy]

8 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Looking back at the possibilities available 100 years ago, this was indeed a very significant development. But we live in 2025 and not 1925 any more...

...and the inherent image quality available from the current range of Leica M cameras and lenses is far superior (in objective terms) in comparison to anything that was available 100 years ago. As such the benefits from shooting landscapes with an M are even greater than they were 'back then' as, relatively speaking, 5"x4" kit has hardly changed at all.

If using a Leica M was a better choice than shooting with 5"x4" 70 years ago it is a FAR better choice today.

I spent many years lugging-around a 5"x4" baseboard view camera (and all the neccessary paraphernalia) and enjoyed the serenity of the experience but believe me when I say that I would not go back to those days; not for one minute.

Philip.

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[ronaldc]

stick a Voitlander 35 APO on there and see the magic

[costa43]

What’s landscape photography?

Landscape photography for me is documenting the world around me and my family. This is my landscape, the M excels here. Landscape photography for me is hiking with friends and camping out, the M excels here too. Landscape photography for me is opportunistic so having a camera to hand is vital. The M excels here too.