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The release of the SL3-S has left many in the Leica community underwhelmed, mainly due to the lack of real innovation in the SL series. At its core, the SL3-S is essentially a repackaged S5IIX from two years ago—though, of course, with all the refinements we love about Leica.

More interesting, however, is how this release clarifies the SL line’s future: Maintaining separate high- and low-resolution models no longer makes sense—stacked sensor technology renders that distinction obsolete. Just look at what the Nikon Z8 offers. 

A potential SL4 could feature a 48MP stacked sensor, with the option to shoot at 24MP "Small Raw", combining speed, resolution, and all the necessary specs into a single flagship—much like when the original SL Typ 601 was introduced.

What do you think?

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16 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

come back in 3 years! Leica may have a new camera.

for now the Panasonic looks like they are putting all the latest in the new camera next week.

In a week it will be possible to buy almost new SL3, SL3-S on the market at a favorable price😉

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I think a lot of people expected something like that in specs of SL3S

https://www.l-rumors.com/lumix-s1rii-images-and-specs-leaked/

Internal raw, fast sensor, etc etc etc

But we got a refurbished Lumix S1IIX for x2 price and less features.
To say that SL line is underloved by Leica management is a terrible mistake, so much lost potential.

(Said by  2 SL2S bodies owner who rooted for SL3S)

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I’m wondering if the less than impressive improvements of the SL3(s) compared to the SL2(s) have something to do with the upcoming S4? One would assume that this camera would have to compete against the X2D and GFX lines, so not the €20k territory that the S3 once was. By holding back on the SL3, it might create a market opportunity for the S4 to fit in?

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3 hours ago, wjdrijfhout said:

I’m wondering if the less than impressive improvements of the SL3(s) compared to the SL2(s) have something to do with the upcoming S4? One would assume that this camera would have to compete against the X2D and GFX lines, so not the €20k territory that the S3 once was. By holding back on the SL3, it might create a market opportunity for the S4 to fit in?

They’re not holding back on the SL3 line. Look at what Panasonic has and you get about the same from Leica. 

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15 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

I think a lot of people expected something like that in specs of SL3S

https://www.l-rumors.com/lumix-s1rii-images-and-specs-leaked/

Internal raw, fast sensor, etc etc etc

But we got a refurbished Lumix S1IIX for x2 price and less features.
To say that SL line is underloved by Leica management is a terrible mistake, so much lost potential.

(Said by  2 SL2S bodies owner who rooted for SL3S)

And approaching 30 buttons and knobs on the back and top!  That looks awesome.  Super user friendly!  I bet the menus will be fantastic too!  Maybe Leica Mgt will get the hint and throw tons of irritating things all over the camera for minimal real gain in actual every day use.  Plus some extras for spec reading especially for those who haven't tested nor own the cameras.

15 hours ago, Smogg said:

In a week it will be possible to buy almost new SL3, SL3-S on the market at a favorable price😉

I bet you can pick them up for half price or less.  Will be a used buyers dream!

Edited by ALScott
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1 hour ago, ALScott said:

And approaching 30 buttons and knobs on the back and top!  That looks awesome.  Super user friendly!  I bet the menus will be fantastic too!  Maybe Leica Mgt will get the hint and throw tons of irritating things all over the camera for minimal real gain in actual every day use.  Plus some extras for spec reading especially for those who haven't tested nor own the cameras.

I bet you can pick them up for half price or less.  Will be a used buyers dream!

ouch, I got your nerve, but you are wrong on all aspects.
New sensor maybe for SL3S? Internal RAW recording maybe? Maybe 8 stops of ibis vs 5 (which is lower that 5.5 stops of Leica SL2S)? Maybe blackout free EVF? Maybe AF better or on par with competition? etc etc

It's not about design and knobs, it's about being subpar in every aspect and being priced x2 against competitions for no reason.
If you are a new camera on highly saturated market and want to compete - you have to show new hardware and features.

Leica SL3S lacks in that department and that's a shame, because I would pay 7k USD for a high end flagship mirrorless from Leica.

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2 hours ago, ALScott said:

And approaching 30 buttons and knobs on the back and top!  That looks awesome.  Super user friendly!  

I find the buttons on my S5II to be very well laid out and user friendly. 

I agree that menus are not that great, though. 

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2 hours ago, ALScott said:

I bet you can pick them up for half price or less.  Will be a used buyers dream!

I don't need it, I've owned the SL3 for a couple of months, I can't say I was thrilled with the ergonomics and AF-L performance. I bought it hoping it would replace the A7RV for shooting my kids' parties. The resulting percentage of shots in proper focus didn't satisfy me, and the frames constantly jumping from person to person are very distracting.

Edited by Smogg
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17 minutes ago, CptSlevin said:

ouch, I got your nerve, but you are wrong on all aspects.
New sensor maybe for SL3S? Internal RAW recording maybe? Maybe 8 stops of ibis vs 5 (which is lower that 5.5 stops of Leica SL2S)? Maybe blackout free EVF? Maybe AF better or on par with competition? etc etc

It's not about design and knobs, it's about being subpar in every aspect and being priced x2 against competitions for no reason.
If you are a new camera on highly saturated market and want to compete - you have to show new hardware and features.

Leica SL3S lacks in that department and that's a shame, because I would pay 7k USD for a high end flagship mirrorless from Leica.

It's a "forum" so......

Not my nerve... maybe a little I guess because I am happy with the gear I chose to buy and that apparently makes me an albatross.  Leica never promised the greatest new camera to beat all others so why beat them to death when they don't do what they never said they would?  That is my question.  The EVF on the SL3-S is way better than my SL3 as is the AF, miles better.  They did say that, and it is.  

For me it absolutely IS about design and knobs.  ALL other cameras look like a train wreck of crap to me and I hated using them.  I had no option until I went Leica and is a massive breath of fresh air to me.  You don't see it that way and that is fine, but others can see it differently than you and that is more than fine too.

Not editing the crap out of my Canon files is a massive competitive advantage to me.  Again, maybe not you but others would agree with me.  It just seems they are quieter.  I just feel strongly enough about this to wade into this fray.

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33 minutes ago, CptSlevin said:

Leica SL3S lacks in that department and that's a shame, because I would pay 7k USD for a high end flagship mirrorless from Leica.

I'm not sure it's right to call the SL a flagship. The flagships and sales drivers for Leica, in my opinion, are the M and Q. The M is an icon and a truly outstanding project that has stood the test of decades, the Q is a very successful new product that generates cash flow (like the Cayenne for Porsche). The SL, D-LUX, and Sofort seem to me to be small-scale, self-financing projects to retain staff and fill the gaps between the releases of new M and Q.

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11 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I find the buttons on my S5II to be very well laid out and user friendly. 

I agree that menus are not that great, though. 

I don't have a Panasonic anything and probably won't just from looking at pics of its layout.  If the menus were fantastic I might give it a try.  The Canon menus sucked IMO and I always felt like I was missing out on something in the cameras abilities but didn't want to spend the god awful amount of time it would take to really Know them.  With Leica, it is not that way at all, super easy to me.  Maybe I just have a German lean to my brain, honestly that could be it.  I am sure just as many or more that hate Leica UI as love S-N-C-P.

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47 minutes ago, ALScott said:

I don't have a Panasonic anything and probably won't just from looking at pics of its layout.  If the menus were fantastic I might give it a try.  The Canon menus sucked IMO and I always felt like I was missing out on something in the cameras abilities but didn't want to spend the god awful amount of time it would take to really Know them.  With Leica, it is not that way at all, super easy to me.  Maybe I just have a German lean to my brain, honestly that could be it.  I am sure just as many or more that hate Leica UI as love S-N-C-P.

If you didn't like the Canon menus, you definitely won't like the Panasonic menus either, which is fair enough. UI/UX is not a thing in Japan, apparently. However, once you spend about 10 minutes to set your list of favorite menu items, as a user you don't need to delve into menus anymore. 

I switched from a SL2-S to a S5II last summer and, after a couple of days to retrain muscle memory, I found the buttons to be well laid out and feel natural to use. I also have a Q3 43 and constantly switch between the two cameras without problems. If I could choose, I'd pick the Leica UI any day, but I don't see the SL3-S as a significant upgrade, but I understand your point of view.

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1 hour ago, ALScott said:

I don't have a Panasonic anything and probably won't just from looking at pics of its layout.  If the menus were fantastic I might give it a try.  The Canon menus sucked IMO and I always felt like I was missing out on something in the cameras abilities but didn't want to spend the god awful amount of time it would take to really Know them.  With Leica, it is not that way at all, super easy to me.  Maybe I just have a German lean to my brain, honestly that could be it.  I am sure just as many or more that hate Leica UI as love S-N-C-P.

Fair enough. I lent a Panasonic to my cousin and he felt about the same.
However I find the menus well organized and find the ability to use the camera virtually without a button press by the analog style wheels quite nice.
I find that I can sweich seamlessly between Panasonic and Leica with Leica requiring slightly more thinking effort because of the disorganized main menu pages rife with submenus and joystick gymnastics.

If they could clean that up in line with their first pictogram page it would be a lot better. Or use the Chapter system Panasonic has. 

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11 hours ago, wjdrijfhout said:

I’m wondering if the less than impressive improvements of the SL3(s) compared to the SL2(s) have something to do with the upcoming S4? One would assume that this camera would have to compete against the X2D and GFX lines, so not the €20k territory that the S3 once was. By holding back on the SL3, it might create a market opportunity for the S4 to fit in?

If anything, then I think an SL3 that was more like the proposed S1RII would make more sense. The S4 will be a higher MP count because of the larger sensor and so it can stand in for the higher resolution version of the SL body. It would make sense to make a high resolution (which 40-50mp certainly still is) body that has the speed and video output to replace both the SL3S and SL3 for most people and those who need more speed, and have the S4 with high resolution and a larger sensor for users that prioritize that, like landscape, high end fashion, fine art etc. I agree that it would be hard to sell it for 20k at this point, but that has never stopped Leica before, so we'll see. I am sure they learned a certain lesson in the S system, as every body was cheaper than the last. Adjusted for inflation it would be even more dramatic. The S2 was introduced for 23,000 USD if I recall, which would be 34,000 dollars today, adjusted for inflation. The S3 was sold for about 19000, and most sold for less than that (I traded in my old camera and paid 12000 if I recall).

Edited by Stuart Richardson
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I think the SL4 should be a single camera release without an S version and for it to be a little like the Sony A1. High megapixel, high performance in every metric. Off topic but I think the new lenses on the upcoming S4 will be absolutely amazing and cannot wait to see what Leica come up with. 

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