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EVF M rumoured

costa43

By costa43
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BernardC

BernardC

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10 minutes ago, lct said:

First time i hear of this. Do you think it could "read" the focus cams of M lenses including legacy ones like that?

It should work. It wouldn't need to be as accurate as an M roller, just enough to get an approximate focus distance and detect the rate of movement.

Film point-and-shoot cameras used a similar principle for AF. They projected an IR beam, and a sensor would triangulate the distance to your subject. A small board with an IR LED and IR receivers should fit in the same space occupied by the roller mechanism.

I have no insight into what Leica will implement, but I'm sure it's something they've looked into. The electronics should only cost a few Euros, it's just an IR LED with a lens, and a line sensor array. Pixel in the array generate a voltage when they see the IR beam. If two pixels light-up you can calculate in-between distances. The IR line will move left and right as the focus cam moves back and forth (the beam is projected at an angle), so it lines-up with different pixels. It isn't much more complicated than reading a 6-bit lens code. You would struggle to get a very accurate distance reading, but it's enough to trigger EVF magnification and provide distance data in your EXIFs.

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charlesphoto99
charlesphoto99

This idea that EVF focusing with magnification is faster than a rangefinder is patently ridiculous. Or that one can't photograph action with a rangefinder. I would have totally missed shots (and/or co

evikne
evikne

I have photographed with the lens cap on. The black image I got was not what I saw. 🤣

Overgaard
Overgaard

There is an interesting and cozy podcast here where Stefan Daniel tells about Leica and products. It is worth noting that towards the end of the podcast, he encourage people to not have too high hopes

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BernardC

BernardC

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2 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I am confident that if Leica do release a M body EVF they will deliver a camera that is state of the art + . I do not think they would risk anything sub-optimal.

Of course. My point was about some other brands that I've tried-out in shops. It's amazing how a little bit of cost-cutting in the EVF optics can make a 10 million pixel EVF look fuzzier than a 4 million pixel EVF.

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charlesphoto99

charlesphoto99

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1 hour ago, pedaes said:

Well, we have yet to see real world reports on how easy it is to focus with the EVF, but this body may genuinely help long term M users with age related eyesight deterioration, and if it does great, and that alone would be enough justification for me.

We hear a lot about age related eyesight, but what about age related brain? I like to swing about a lot with the M to my eye. If I do that with an EVF now, I feel like I'm going to fall down and throw up (SL2, Q Nikon, etc). Probably if they were around when I was younger, not a problem. Might just need brain retraining. 

What will make or break the M-EVF being a 'milestone imo is the amount of lag, blackout, etc in the finder, startup time, and if they can somehow tweak it so that one can focus easily and accurately without really needing to use a focus aid, or a minimal aid. My thinking now is that there will be a magnification option that limits the magnified view to where the rf patch was before. That way one gets the constant accurate focus feedback without taking away the view of the entire scene. Still need to recompose though, so not a perfect panacea unless one can move the focus point around (even if the patch did/didn't?). Could happen, which would really be game changer. 

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rxj

rxj

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13 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I am confident that if Leica do release a M body EVF they will deliver a camera that is state of the art + . I do not think they would risk anything sub-optimal.

Not if, will. There are many preview events for it this week alongside the global announcement.

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charlesphoto99

charlesphoto99

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10 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I am confident that if Leica do release a M body EVF they will deliver a camera that is state of the art + . I do not think they would risk anything sub-optimal.

I would say more art than state. Leica are generally a couple of years behind, even more so back in the M8/9 days. It's how they implement it to the M ethos that really counts. The tech itself will always get better, so wait a gen or two. Anyway, the design is mostly why we shoot them, or at least myself, and the quality and form factor of the glass. The rangefinder, clear window to the world experience is increasingly found nowhere else, though once common. Even the once go-to workhorse, the DSLR, is only made in two models these days, one each by Pentax and Nikon. The times they are a changing. 

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jrichie

jrichie

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23 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I am confident that if Leica do release a M body EVF they will deliver a camera that is state of the art + . I do not think they would risk anything sub-optimal.

I hope they do.  I am imagining an M for the 21st century - it is a major opportunity for them to introduce a new more modern direction.  I will be disappointed in Leica if it is those rumoured images, but at the same time, it is what I expect them to do.

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DadDadDaddyo

DadDadDaddyo

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4 hours ago, rxj said:

Remember the discussion when the baseplate was removed in the M11. Huge uproar.

Yup. Silly. As one of the old grey rangefinder users I thought that uproar was ridiculous. 

Keeping that removable bottom plate was way weirder than replacing it with a modern camera bottom.

I wonder, if one were to query the general photographic enthusiast public, just how many could even tell you why that plate was removable on the old cameras in the first place. Nikon and Canon and Olympus and Minolta film cameras from the old SLR era didn't have 'em. How many folks who got into photography during that time ever even saw a Leica being loaded?

Retaining that plate was simply silly.

All that said, I'm a Leica rangefinder user from another time, I guess, and its limitations, obvious to many, don't bother me much, and never did, since my "photographic eye" (or whatever) developed largely between the focal lengths of 35 and 90 mm (maybe sometimes the old beat up Hektor 135).

The limitations were in me, in my seeing, in my vision, in my technique, in my capability to capture what the mind's eye was envisioning. Grumbling about equipment got me nowhere. IBIS, OIS, Megapixels, these were on nobody's radar.

Measure the light, place the exposure, see where the zones fall, process accordingly, print carefully, see if you made it...

...and then try again. 

No problem. It was great!

As for what's coming?

No problem. It'll be great!

Who's making that photograph anyway, eh?

Edited by DadDadDaddyo
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algrove

algrove

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18 minutes ago, Stephencdean said:

Leica stores have them in stock now, but aren’t allowed to sell them until, I think, 1300 UK time on Thursday. Price I have been quoted is £6840, so between Q and M.

 

 

So with Daylight Savings Time in UK Europe that could mean 0900 hours US EST. The US goes Daylight Saving on 2 Nov. That said many east coast Leica stores open at 10AM.

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algrove

algrove

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1 hour ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Yup. Silly. As one of the old grey rangefinder users I thought that uproar was ridiculous. 

Keeping that removable bottom plate was way weirder than replacing it with a modern camera bottom.

I wonder, if one were to query the general photographic enthusiast public, just how many could even tell you why that plate was removable on the old cameras in the first place. Nikon and Canon and Olympus and Minolta film cameras from the old SLR era didn't have 'em. How many folks who got into photography during that time ever even saw a Leica being loaded?

Retaining that plate was simply silly.

All that said, I'm a Leica rangefinder user from another time, I guess, and its limitations, obvious to many, don't bother me much, and never did, since my "photographic eye" (or whatever) developed largely between the focal lengths of 35 and 90 mm (maybe sometimes the old beat up Hektor 135).

The limitations were in me, in my seeing, in my vision, in my technique, in my capability to capture what the mind's eye was envisioning. Grumbling about equipment got me nowhere. IBIS, OIS, Megapixels, these were on nobody's radar.

Measure the light, place the exposure, see where the zones fall, process accordingly, print carefully, see if you made it...

...and then try again. 

No problem. It was great!

As for what's coming?

No problem. It'll be great!

Who's making that photograph anyway, eh?

I hear you, but as with the base plate Leica will keep moving on-built-in EVF now and then someday IBIS-but not right now.

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ApoVision

ApoVision

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4 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

I'm hoping you are being sarcastic

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2024/company/porsche-jd-power-iqs-top-ranked-premium-brand-36660.html

No, not in view of the share price development since 2024, the value destroyed and the late reaction by the board to finally convince Blume to just run one shop

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bobtodrick

bobtodrick

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1 hour ago, ApoVision said:

No, not in view of the share price development since 2024, the value destroyed and the late reaction by the board to finally convince Blume to just run one shop

I don’t think a reported 1% drop in share price quite makes it an ‘unsuccessful car company’.

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FrozenInTime

FrozenInTime

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Back onto the topic of a hybrid viewfinder:

Just thought of a way to make a hybrid opto-electrical EVF, but not in the way the Fuji X100 does it.

If the rangefinder offset telescope is retained* along with the rangefinder coupled cam and mirror prism movement. The classic frame mask and backlight is not required. For the main Galilean optical viewfinder the direct view to the outside world is blanked off and replaced with the OLED display. The split prisms of the classic rangefinder are retained, and the view from the offset periscope ( for pure EVF modes this can be shuttered off ) is combined as on the M11 etc.

To make this work, with lenses of different focal lengths, the EVF image feed form the sensor is scaled down in size as focal length increases, so that the active EVF display area is equivalent to what would be inside the classic frame lines and the rest of the display is black. We now have an electronic main window that can be overlayed with a classic optical rangefinder patch that moves and functions in exactly the same way as all other M cameras.

For EVF modes the offset optical patch is shuttered, and the EVF can  be fully filled with the sensor output. Magnified punch in works as per any other mirrorless camera.

* ( the leaked camera images show the M- EV1 with an offset optical window )

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