Background Transfer Survey: Your Opinion?

[Farel]

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On 1/27/2025 at 2:07 PM, LUF Admin said:

The Background Transfer function has been available for M11 cameras since the introduction of the FOTOS App v.5.0

The Leica product developers and we would now like to know:

What are your experiences with Background Transfer in the field?

In addition to the small questions above, w’d like to know:

• Where do you see the strengths of the Background Transfer?
• What could be improved in your eyes?

We look forward to your comments and are excited to hear your suggestions and ideas!

I think , we should develop more in SL, when we need to deliver to customer , I don’t think M line is realy for quick export on the spot , I may be wrong , but please make SL a more convenient to work and deliver to customer 

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[johnson184]

On 1/30/2025 at 1:01 PM, Smogg said:

Believe it or not, I do the same thing using the M11-P's rear screen when I go to a cafe. Why would you need to buy an M11-D for that?

Definitely don't need a M11-D for any of that. I just bought the M11-D over the M11-P because I purposely chose Leica for a more manual experience than my Sony gear I grew up shooting. It's my first ever Leica and I'm glad I went with it. I used to chimp a lot and show off photos I just took to the photo subject but now that I don't have a screen to display... it lets me not worry about checking and just focus on the framing and the moment. Builds up my confidence. (Which I completely understand is something you can do by just disabling the M11-P's screen) But there's also the aesthetics of the M11-D I adore. None of my decision making in buying the M11-D is truly rational hahaha. I have managed to sneak into a few concerts with it by claiming it's a film camera though... 

[stbeyer]

The background transfer functionality, as it is implemented now (with 3MB JPEGs being transferred) is mainly useful for a typical everyday snapshot use case. For example, you are in the park with the kids and take a family shot you quickly want to send to the grandparents. You just mark the image as favourite to have it sent to the phone (if set up this way) and send it as a multimedia message. There are many more examples one can think of, but they are all snapshot scenarios. For serious photography, I would like the option to send a full-sized DNG to my phone this way.

The way the feature is implemented now, I think the Q3 would be a better camera for this, since it is more of a snapshot, every day carry camera for many people. However, there is no reason why this could not be on all Leica camera lines. 

 

 

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, stbeyer said:

The background transfer functionality, as it is implemented now (with 3MB JPEGs being transferred) is mainly useful for a typical everyday snapshot use case. For example, you are in the park with the kids and take a family shot you quickly want to send to the grandparents. You just mark the image as favourite to have it sent to the phone (if set up this way) and send it as a multimedia message. There are many more examples one can think of, but they are all snapshot scenarios. For serious photography, I would like the option to send a full-sized DNG to my phone this way.

The way the feature is implemented now, I think the Q3 would be a better camera for this, since it is more of a snapshot, every day carry camera for many people. However, there is no reason why this could not be on all Leica camera lines. 

 

 

It will probably come to other cameras.

The camera needs to have Bluetooth, the transfer of the images is true to this protocol.  The data rate is still lower than that of Wi-Fi, and uses much sell power. 

That is why the DNG is still reserved for wifi download.

[davidmknoble]

The strength is in the quick ability to share an image with someone else - especially a stranger that you just took a photograph of.  

The key is that the content credentials (M11-P, M11-D) should transfer with the JPEG so that when the image is transferred to someone else it has the credentials.  The more Leica builds the content credential cameras, the more important it becomes to transfer the credentials to any image coming out of the camera.

[Photoworks]

10 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

The strength is in the quick ability to share an image with someone else - especially a stranger that you just took a photograph of.  

The key is that the content credentials (M11-P, M11-D) should transfer with the JPEG so that when the image is transferred to someone else it has the credentials.  The more Leica builds the content credential cameras, the more important it becomes to transfer the credentials to any image coming out of the camera.

content credentials do not have anything to do with copyright info. 

What does LCC help the stranger you are giving the image to? LCC information only preserves editing information so that the images are not changed in post.

[elmars]

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vor 13 Stunden schrieb Photoworks:

content credentials do not have anything to do with copyright info.

I'm not so sure about that. One function of content credentials is to make image processing traceable; another is to store the author or owner of the image rights in the file. This is why you can specify both in the camera in the Content credentials menu item.

[davidmknoble]

20 hours ago, Photoworks said:

content credentials do not have anything to do with copyright info. 

What does LCC help the stranger you are giving the image to? LCC information only preserves editing information so that the images are not changed in post.

Actually, that is incorrect.  Content credentials uses ‘bitcoin’ technology to embed the creator’s name and camera in the file. That means it is technically very difficult to remove from the image.  There are a myriad of programs out there to change EXIF metadata, so it is useless.  While it can preserve edits, that is only with a few editing softwares I am aware of today (LR and C1, although there may be others).  

First, the LCC information in the M11-P and M11-D is useless if it is not used.  Leica Fotos is a great, fast use technology. It would be a great fix to allow an image to be downloaded from an LCC camera that can later be proven to be authentic and unaltered.  That is the whole point of LCC.

It is proof the photograph is really a photograph and not an altered reality.

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, davidmknoble said:

Actually, that is incorrect.  Content credentials uses ‘bitcoin’ technology to embed the creator’s name and camera in the file. That means it is technically very difficult to remove from the image.  There are a myriad of programs out there to change EXIF metadata, so it is useless.  While it can preserve edits, that is only with a few editing softwares I am aware of today (LR and C1, although there may be others).  

First, the LCC information in the M11-P and M11-D is useless if it is not used.  Leica Fotos is a great, fast use technology. It would be a great fix to allow an image to be downloaded from an LCC camera that can later be proven to be authentic and unaltered.  That is the whole point of LCC.

It is proof the photograph is really a photograph and not an altered reality.

that is partially incorrect.

Content credential is metadata information that gets a cryptographic security certificate in the camera by a dedicated chip.
The information is the origin (M11-P) and edits ( all in supported software and devices)

The certificate can be read by Lightroom, PS, and Capture one (and some others) take a screenshot of the edits you did and a list of steps and save it back to the file.

This Metadata can be easily removed in a few simple ways, and the IMAGE will no longer have the C2PA cert and copyright.

What is not possible is to add a cert or origin to an existing file.
 

[davidmknoble]

13 hours ago, Photoworks said:

that is partially incorrect.

Content credential is metadata information that gets a cryptographic security certificate in the camera by a dedicated chip.
The information is the origin (M11-P) and edits ( all in supported software and devices)

The certificate can be read by Lightroom, PS, and Capture one (and some others) take a screenshot of the edits you did and a list of steps and save it back to the file.

This Metadata can be easily removed in a few simple ways, and the IMAGE will no longer have the C2PA cert and copyright.

What is not possible is to add a cert or origin to an existing file.
 

I stand corrected in that it is in Metadata.  I verified that on the Content Authenticity site.  But, it does not change my initial point. If you have a JPEG with content credentials and give that out, it is using the technology to show authenticity.  At this point, hacking the LCC and changing it is not available, so you don’t have to worry about someone changing your credentials.  If it is deleted, but you have the original file with your LCC, then you still prove you own the image.

That is my point.  It is much more than editing, although that is a good benefit of it.  From Leica Fotos, there may be zero editing, buy it has my name and camera information embedded such that it cannot be changed, but only deleted.

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

At this point, hacking the LCC and changing it is not available

That can be just a method of time. 

Just like the DVD encoding, once you have the hardware in hand and someone willing to copy it, it could be done. I'm not sure there is an interest in faking a camera, looks pointless!

[davidmknoble]

Agreed, so it is a worthwhile addition.  I didn’t make the technology, but now we have it, so it should be prolific in every image that comes out of the camera.  That’s all I’m suggesting.

[n8fire]

I find it works pretty well.  I typically have it set to "Starred" so i can select the pictures i want to transfer and it works really well.  I have been skeptical of Leica software since the initial M11 issues but I have to say this is quite good.  I like that you can apply the "Leica looks" to the transferred pictures as it can get you something passable quickly and with the option to open directly in lightroom is quite nice too.  Results are more for social media but i think that is the intention.   Finally, ii find it cool to pair this with an instax printer, the quality is enough for those small print and it's much faster than having to transfer the DNG.