SrMi Posted January 21 Share #121 Posted January 21 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, Chaemono said: The SL3 has more DR than the SL3-S even at high ISO based on Jono‘s ISO 12500 comparison. The advantage of the SL3-S at high ISO is then only exposure latitude. Based on Jono's review, I wonder how you come to that conclusion. How do you evaluate exposure latitude for digital cameras? Lifting of underexposed images in the post? My tests, using usable exposure, show similar results between the cameras. Only the extreme (unusable image) shows an advantage for SL3-S. Edited January 21 by SrMi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Hi SrMi, Take a look here Leica SL3-S: Fastest Camera in Leica’s 100-Year Camera History. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Chaemono Posted January 21 Share #122 Posted January 21 vor 24 Minuten schrieb LD_50: How are you making that determination based upon the two photos shown at 12,500? Look at the edges of the yellow and black books on the right in Jono's ISO 12500 comparison (SL3 on the left) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And then listen to Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica SL3 - A Closer Look after 48:38 (ISO performance comparisons using their famous camera bag shelf) "One of the things I want to show is DR benefit..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uYKT5Yg_FI The first time I took some tests shots with the SL3 vs. the SL2-S in the local Leica store about a year ago, it became clear to me that the SL3 was punching above its FF weight when it came to DR and I stated so in a thread on this forum (my tests shots were at ISO 100). Before I had posted that I thought the Red Dot Forum guys were full of it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And then listen to Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica SL3 - A Closer Look after 48:38 (ISO performance comparisons using their famous camera bag shelf) "One of the things I want to show is DR benefit..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uYKT5Yg_FI The first time I took some tests shots with the SL3 vs. the SL2-S in the local Leica store about a year ago, it became clear to me that the SL3 was punching above its FF weight when it came to DR and I stated so in a thread on this forum (my tests shots were at ISO 100). Before I had posted that I thought the Red Dot Forum guys were full of it. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418592-leica-sl3-s-fastest-camera-in-leica%E2%80%99s-100-year-camera-history/?do=findComment&comment=5743943'>More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21 Share #123 Posted January 21 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Chaemono said: Look at the edges of the yellow and black books on the right in Jono's ISO 12500 comparison (SL3 on the left) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And then listen to Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica SL3 - A Closer Look after 48:38 (ISO performance comparisons using their famous camera bag shelf) "One of the things I want to show is DR benefit..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uYKT5Yg_FI The first time I took some tests shots with the SL3 vs. the SL2-S in the local Leica store about a year ago, it became clear to me that the SL3 was punching above its FF weight when it came to DR and I stated so in a thread on this forum (my tests shots were at ISO 100). Before I had posted that I thought the Red Dot Forum guys were full of it. You compared originally SL3 with SL3-S but now you are comparing SL3 with SL2-S. Also the image above compared different magnifications and the exposure is slightly different. I would expect SL3's DR to be similar to S5II, which is practically the same as SL3's (per P2P). Edited January 21 by SrMi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted January 21 Share #124 Posted January 21 45 minutes ago, Chaemono said: Look at the edges of the yellow and black books on the right in Jono's ISO 12500 comparison (SL3 on the left) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And then listen to Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica SL3 - A Closer Look after 48:38 (ISO performance comparisons using their famous camera bag shelf) "One of the things I want to show is DR benefit..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uYKT5Yg_FI The first time I took some tests shots with the SL3 vs. the SL2-S in the local Leica store about a year ago, it became clear to me that the SL3 was punching above its FF weight when it came to DR and I stated so in a thread on this forum (my tests shots were at ISO 100). Before I had posted that I thought the Red Dot Forum guys were full of it. That video from Red Dot Forum compared SL3 to SL2 when they were discussing DR improvement. They also compared to SL2-S, but were talking about noise when the SL3 files are downsampled to 24 mp (where the files looked very similar, with SL3 showing more detail). I don’t recall them drawing any DR conclusions regarding SL3 vs SL2-S, but I didn’t go back and rewatch the video. I would have a hard time using Jono’s posted photos to determine which camera (SL3 vs SL3-S) has more DR. The SL3-S photo looks like it’s a brighter overall exposure. They have different shutter speeds (1/60 for the SL3 vs 1/50 for the SL3-S) so the exposure values would be different, unless the ISO ratings are not equivalent for the two cameras. I believe at 1/60 f/4 and ISO 12,500, the equivalent exposure would be something like 1/50 f/4 at ISO 10,000. Maybe @jonoslack can weigh in on the DR he sees in the files between the two cameras. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 21 Share #125 Posted January 21 17 minutes ago, SrMi said: You compared originally SL3 with SL3-S but now you are comparing SL3 with SL2-S. Also the image above compared different magnifications and the exposure is slightly different. I would expect SL3's DR to be similar to S5II, which is practically the same as SL3's (per P2P). HI there - this one is SL3 compared to SL3-S The previous one (where the exposure is more different and the books were in a different place) is the SL2-S vs the SL3-S Unless I’m going completely mad! best 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 21 Share #126 Posted January 21 Red Dot Forum Claims that the SL3 Sensor has more DR over the SL3-s hew is the comparison or the ISO on SL3-s 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 21 Share #127 Posted January 21 Advertisement (gone after registration) 6 minutes ago, LD_50 said: That video from Red Dot Forum compared SL3 to SL2 when they were discussing DR improvement. They also compared to SL2-S, but were talking about noise when the SL3 files are downsampled to 24 mp (where the files looked very similar, with SL3 showing more detail). I don’t recall them drawing any DR conclusions regarding SL3 vs SL2-S, but I didn’t go back and rewatch the video. I would have a hard time using Jono’s posted photos to determine which camera (SL3 vs SL3-S) has more DR. The SL3-S photo looks like it’s a brighter overall exposure. They have different shutter speeds (1/60 for the SL3 vs 1/50 for the SL3-S) so the exposure values would be different, unless the ISO ratings are not equivalent for the two cameras. I believe at 1/60 f/4 and ISO 12,500, the equivalent exposure would be something like 1/50 f/4 at ISO 10,000. Maybe @jonoslack can weigh in on the DR he sees in the files between the two cameras. Hi There - perhaps I should have matched exposure, but that makes it a ridiculous amount of extra work (I’m sure Sean will do it!). Personally I don’t think there is a very big difference in dynamic range, but it’s quite hard to judge because of the extra pixels on the SL3 and I don’t have a good way of really comparing. But - They both seem to me to be really good. The thing about the high ISO shots is that the colour is still pretty good, which allows you to make decent colour images with a bit of NR 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 21 Share #128 Posted January 21 vor 3 Minuten schrieb jonoslack: HI there - this one is SL3 compared to SL3-S The previous one (where the exposure is more different and the books were in a different place) is the SL2-S vs the SL3-S Unless I’m going completely mad! best It’s about how one determines DR not what cameras were compared and your book shelf pics based on how the Red Dot Forum goes about to determine which camera has better DR clearly showed better DR for the SL3 than the SL3-S at ISO 12500. Anyway with the new RDF video out on the SL3-S I don’t need to argue anymore. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 21 Share #129 Posted January 21 vor 6 Minuten schrieb Photoworks: Red Dot Forum Claims that the SL3 Sensor has more DR over the SL3-s hew is the comparison or the ISO on SL3-s Doesn’t surprise me a bit. That’s what Jono‘s pics showed, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted January 21 Share #130 Posted January 21 3 minutes ago, jonoslack said: Hi There - perhaps I should have matched exposure, but that makes it a ridiculous amount of extra work (I’m sure Sean will do it!). Personally I don’t think there is a very big difference in dynamic range, but it’s quite hard to judge because of the extra pixels on the SL3 and I don’t have a good way of really comparing. But - They both seem to me to be really good. The thing about the high ISO shots is that the colour is still pretty good, which allows you to make decent colour images with a bit of NR Thanks Jono. I agree testing takes a lot of time and we appreciate you doing it. Exposure looks visibly brighter in the SL3-S image at ISO 12,500. With fixed light source, that could be partly due to the longer exposure time, and it could also be that the ISO 12,500 ratings aren’t equivalent between the two cameras. I don’t think the small differences you describe in DR should be a big concern. For me, if the SL3 had the AF capability of the SL3-S, I would definitely choose SL3 and simply downsample to even out noise when possible (ie when not cropping). DR wouldn’t factor in my decision given how close they are. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21 Share #131 Posted January 21 4 minutes ago, Photoworks said: Red Dot Forum Claims that the SL3 Sensor has more DR over the SL3-s hew is the comparison or the ISO on SL3-s I heard more detail with SL3-S and same noise when compared to SL2-S and practically the same when compared to SL3, though there are some advantages when downsampling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21 Share #132 Posted January 21 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Chaemono said: Doesn’t surprise me a bit. That’s what Jono‘s pics showed, too. But that is not what they say (according to my viewing of the comparison section). Edited January 21 by SrMi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21 Share #133 Posted January 21 (edited) LrC applies NR by default for SL3 (15/50/0) and no NR for SL3-S. One must make sure to reset the sliders to 0 when comparing. After resetting NR and sharpness sliders and adjusting the zoom sliders to match the resolution on the screen, here is a screengrab (ISO 12500, same exposure, left is SL3, right is SL3-S): Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! P.S.: There is less than a 1/3 stop brightness difference between the two cameras with the same exposure and ISO (SL3 is darker). Edited January 21 by SrMi 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! P.S.: There is less than a 1/3 stop brightness difference between the two cameras with the same exposure and ISO (SL3 is darker). ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418592-leica-sl3-s-fastest-camera-in-leica%E2%80%99s-100-year-camera-history/?do=findComment&comment=5744063'>More sharing options...
Smogg Posted January 21 Share #134 Posted January 21 4 minutes ago, SrMi said: LrC applies NR by default for SL3 (15/50/0) and no NR for SL3-S. One must make sure to reset the sliders to 0 when comparing. After resetting NR and sharpness sliders and adjusting the zoom sliders to match the resolution on the screen, here is a screengrab (ISO 12500, left is SL3, right is SL3-S): Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The left one looks better, small letters on books are easier to read 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21 Share #135 Posted January 21 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Smogg said: The left one looks better, small letters on books are easier to read Yes, the benefits of higher resolution. If you look at the noise of the shelf back, it seems similar to my eyes. The view is 100% for SL3 and 159% for SL3-S. In print, the difference may or may not be noticeable. Here is a comparison of 100% SL3-S and 69% SL3 (SL3 is left) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 21 by SrMi 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418592-leica-sl3-s-fastest-camera-in-leica%E2%80%99s-100-year-camera-history/?do=findComment&comment=5744074'>More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted January 21 Share #136 Posted January 21 vor 5 Minuten schrieb SrMi: Yes, the benefits of higher resolution. If you look at the noise of the shelf back, it seems similar to my eyes. The view is 100% for SL3 and 159% for SL3-S. In print, the difference may or may not be noticeable. Pls. do the compare with tripod Multishot too! To show, where the Hammer hängt. lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21 Share #137 Posted January 21 (edited) 24 minutes ago, mpauliks said: Pls. do the compare with tripod Multishot too! To show, where the Hammer hängt. lol Since the multishot goes only to ISO 3200, I simulate ISO 12500 by under-exposing two stops and lifting two stops in the post (SL3 is on the left, SL3-S tripod multishot is on the right). The comparison is more of an academic nature, as I believe tripod multishot will be used at base ISO mostly (only?). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 21 by SrMi 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418592-leica-sl3-s-fastest-camera-in-leica%E2%80%99s-100-year-camera-history/?do=findComment&comment=5744108'>More sharing options...
gbpost Posted January 21 Share #138 Posted January 21 (edited) The SL3-2 took 8 images in Multishot mode, if I understand it right. The SL3 took only one. Of course noise is stronger on the SL3 side, then. In order to be fair the SL3 should take 8 images too, which are added in post. This should give an improvement of 3 stops and I doubt that a difference will be noticable. Edited January 21 by gbpost typo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 21 Share #139 Posted January 21 8 minutes ago, gbpost said: The SL3-2 took 8 images in Multishot mode, if I understand it right. The SL3 took only one. Of course noise is stronger on the SL3 side, then. In order to be fair the SL3 should take 8 images too, which are added in post. This should give an improvement of 3 stops and I doubt that a difference will be noticable. Yes. I do not understand why there are not more cameras that allow in-camera frame averaging. Sadly, manufacturers are removing it with model updates (see S5II). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted January 21 Share #140 Posted January 21 10 minutes ago, gbpost said: The SL3-2 took 8 images in Multishot mode, if I understand it right. The SL3 took only one. Of course noise is stronger on the SL3 side, then. In order to be fair the SL3 should take 8 images too, which are added in post. This should give an improvement of 3 stops and I doubt that a difference will be noticable. You’re suggesting simulating multi shot on the SL3 by taking 8 photos and combining them in post to compare to the actual multi shot on SL3-S? I definitely would not call that comparable in any practical sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now