Chaemono Posted January 18 Share #61 Posted January 18 Advertisement (gone after registration) vor 10 Stunden schrieb Ken Abrahams: I have purchased the SL3s and will probably receive it next week. The main reason is that I like having the same operating system with two main cameras. However I also like having the same image quality with two main cameras. So that doesn't rule out using both SL2S and SL3S and selling the SL3 if it's a better match. The difference between the SL2 and SL2S was significant but I dont expect there will be such a difference between SL3S and SL3. For pushed shadows noise at ISO 3200 and above the difference is huge. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Ken Abrahams Posted January 18 Share #62 Posted January 18 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Chaemono said: For pushed shadows noise at ISO 3200 and above the difference is huge. Good to hear. I have been watching the usual reviews on the SL3S today and it was hard to fathom 200,000 ISO coming up a treat with some AI denoise post treatments. As much as I have been disappointed in the past with advertised low light work and high iso capabilities, I am looking forward to seeing with my own eyes. I do remember however with the SL601, I was pretty amazed with 3200 iso but nothing over that. Ken Edited January 18 by Ken Abrahams Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 18 Share #63 Posted January 18 5 hours ago, Chaemono said: For pushed shadows noise at ISO 3200 and above the difference is huge. My first test was at ISO 3200 with a five-stop push (LrC: reset noise reduction and sharpening sliders, manually set the same WB). The difference is that the colors and details are better with SL3-S. I would not call the difference huge, but it is observable ;-). I do not have an SL2-S anymorer to compare with, but I do not remember seeing such a difference between SL2-S and SL3. Note: Adobe applies different default noise reduction settings to SL3 and SL3-S raw files. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted January 19 Share #64 Posted January 19 12 hours ago, SrMi said: My first test was at ISO 3200 with a five-stop push (LrC: reset noise reduction and sharpening sliders, manually set the same WB). The difference is that the colors and details are better with SL3-S. I would not call the difference huge, but it is observable ;-). I do not have an SL2-S anymorer to compare with, but I do not remember seeing such a difference between SL2-S and SL3. Note: Adobe applies different default noise reduction settings to SL3 and SL3-S raw files. Wonder if the SL3-S has baked in NR like the SL3. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 19 Share #65 Posted January 19 vor 12 Stunden schrieb SrMi: My first test was at ISO 3200 with a five-stop push (LrC: reset noise reduction and sharpening sliders, manually set the same WB). The difference is that the colors and details are better with SL3-S. I would not call the difference huge, but it is observable ;-). I do not have an SL2-S anymorer to compare with, but I do not remember seeing such a difference between SL2-S and SL3. Note: Adobe applies different default noise reduction settings to SL3 and SL3-S raw files. There are two/three reasons for photos to upgrade from the SL2-S to the SL3-S, ergonomics/weight (it makes a difference to some, not to others), speed of AF, and possibly slightly better pushed shadows noise at high ISO because of the faster processor. It complements the SL3 for faster AF and better pushed shadows noise at high ISO which makes the SL3-S a bit of a niche camera for photos if one owns the SL3 already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Abrahams Posted January 19 Share #66 Posted January 19 17 minutes ago, hdmesa said: Wonder if the SL3-S has baked in NR like the SL3. I am pretty sure you can turn NR off with the SL3 - There will be a wish list soon with the request for more Fn Buttons because I want to assign Perspective Control to one, that would mean bumping another one out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 19 Share #67 Posted January 19 Advertisement (gone after registration) 24 minutes ago, hdmesa said: Wonder if the SL3-S has baked in NR like the SL3. SL3 has NR (amount unknown) only above ISO 6400 (my test was at ISO 3200). If SL3-S has any NR baked in, it is unlikely that it is at ISO 6400 or lower. After applying Adobe AI Denoise, SL3-S still looks better. 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted January 19 Share #68 Posted January 19 Just let´s face it: SL3-S is the better cam. If you mandatory need 60 MP when clicking, you are better of with original SL3. Me not! I use Multishot as backhand, which is superior to SL3´s 60 MP and I do not waste with large image sizes anymore when not needed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 19 Share #69 Posted January 19 6 minutes ago, Ken Abrahams said: I am pretty sure you can turn NR off with the SL3 - There will be a wish list soon with the request for more Fn Buttons because I want to assign Perspective Control to one, that would mean bumping another one out. You cannot turn off NR that is baked in above ISO 6400 (see P2P measurements). The NR applied seems to be fairly small until ISO 16000. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 19 Share #70 Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, mpauliks said: Just let´s face it: SL3-S is the better cam. If you mandatory need 60 MP when clicking, you are better of with original SL3. Me not! I use Multishot as backhand, which is superior to SL3´s 60 MP and I do not waste with large image sizes anymore when not needed. I am not sure that SL3-S tripod multishot has better resolution than SL3 (need to test it). Handheld multishot is worse resolutionwise, though it has less noise. I find that multishot has generally limited applicability in my kind of shooting. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted January 19 Share #71 Posted January 19 (edited) Yes, talking about tripod mode here please! 96 MP of SL3-S on tripod are much sharper than SL3 60 MP! Searching for the compare images article now. Edited January 19 by mpauliks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted January 19 Share #72 Posted January 19 Traded in my SL3 for SL3-S, so cannot do the compare myself. Still searching for the review with compare images. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted January 19 Share #73 Posted January 19 40 minutes ago, SrMi said: SL3 has NR (amount unknown) only above ISO 6400 (my test was at ISO 3200). If SL3-S has any NR baked in, it is unlikely that it is at ISO 6400 or lower. After applying Adobe AI Denoise, SL3-S still looks better. I’m curious about the SL3-S high ISO noise character/pattern versus the SL2-S. That would be my biggest fear for baked in NR since I like the noise character from the SL2-S at ISO 16K+. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 19 Share #74 Posted January 19 6 minutes ago, hdmesa said: I’m curious about the SL3-S high ISO noise character/pattern versus the SL2-S. That would be my biggest fear for baked in NR since I like the noise character from the SL2-S at ISO 16K+. I have traded in my SL2 and SL2-S for the SL3-S, so I will not be able to run the comparison. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Abrahams Posted January 19 Share #75 Posted January 19 54 minutes ago, SrMi said: You cannot turn off NR that is baked in above ISO 6400 (see P2P measurements). The NR applied seems to be fairly small until ISO 16000. Okay thanks, I will have to read up on it. Ken 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted January 19 Share #76 Posted January 19 vor 9 Minuten schrieb SrMi: I have traded in my SL2 and SL2-S for the SL3-S, so I will not be able to run the comparison. We did right! Trust me please! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted January 19 Share #77 Posted January 19 SL3-S is the very best camera Leica has ever built in the 100 years! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted January 19 Share #78 Posted January 19 28 minutes ago, SrMi said: I have traded in my SL2 and SL2-S for the SL3-S, so I will not be able to run the comparison. With or without having also a SL3? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 19 Share #79 Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said: With or without having also a SL3? With having SL3, of course 😄. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolyproductions Posted January 19 Share #80 Posted January 19 4 hours ago, hdmesa said: I’m curious about the SL3-S high ISO noise character/pattern versus the SL2-S. That would be my biggest fear for baked in NR since I like the noise character from the SL2-S at ISO 16K+. I'm not sure if it has already been discussed in this thread, but the Red Dot episode (starting around 1hr 50 ish) on the SL3-S does comparisons: for SL3-S and SL2-S at 6400 ISO and then at 50,000 ISO. It also does the same ISO comparisons for SL3 and SL3-S (SL3 files downsampled accordingly. Their analysis, (combined with a little speculation from me) is as follows: At ISO 6400 and 50,000 No practical difference between the SL2-S and SL3-S. Perhaps a very very slight edge to the SL3-S At ISO 6400, no practical difference between the SL3-S and SL3 (although they did not try to push the shadows, which might have started to show some difference). IMO this is a big improvement on SL2 at this ISO At ISO 50,000 the SL3-S clearly outperforms the SL3, but neither are particularly fantastic What I would have liked to see is comparisons at 12500 and 25000 ISO (settings I quite often use with the SL2-S) to see where the 'tipping point' is My own tentative take on this (as an SL3 and SL2-S owner) I can now use my SL3 in pretty much any light situation (when I had then SL2 I preferred not to use it in lower light). I had already noticed this for myself of course but it was interesting to see the analysis/comparison SL3-S does not offer any real improvement over the (already class leading) high ISO performance of the SL2-S (not a surprise) When working with very high ISOs the SLx-S cameras still offer an advantage Personally I have decided to get an SL3-S to go alongside my SL3 because I really like the 'sum total' of the various minor upgrades (button layout, tilt screen, updated menu system, identical operation across the two cameras, faster image transfer etc). I'll hold on to my SL2-S for the time being (but mostly for sentimental reasons as we have been through so much together 😃 ) 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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