Best Leica camera in 2025 for using/focusing M lenses?

[algrove]

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My vote will be for the SL3S-24MP pixel pitch (PP) of 5.94 um. The M240 had a PP of 6.05 and the M10 (24MP) had the same PP of 6.05. Both were my favorite looking images and most still are today.

 

That said the EVF on an SF camera makes for easy use of M lenses for my old eyes.

Edited January 14 by algrove

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[IkarusJohn]

M10-D and M-A, depending on the lens ...

Edited January 14 by IkarusJohn

[lct]

Would you say that the M240 with a pixel pitch of 6.05µm is easier to focus than an M11 with a pixel pitch of, how much, 3.79µm? Or the opposite? Just curious.

[Deeetona]

I am holding my breath.

[algrove]

11 hours ago, lct said:

Would you say that the M240 with a pixel pitch of 6.05µm is easier to focus than an M11 with a pixel pitch of, how much, 3.79µm? Or the opposite? Just curious.

I am not concentrating on focusing as much as the image produced by a higher PP over a lower PP camera. For my eye using an SL camera makes for easier focusing FOR ME. This might not be true for everyone. 

Try focusing with an M lens on an SL body and then reflect on the experience over using the same lens on an M camera. That is all I'm suggesting. Many who do not approve of using an SL camera for M lenses might have never tried using an M lens on an SL body.

[algrove]

Asa further thought I am one who often uses the Viso 2 to get critical focus on an M. Thus I bypass the RF experience all to often. This is just me and probably not representative of the majority of M users. I love not using the Viso2 when photographing urban environments since the zone focus on an M is the best for that type of captures IMHO.

[lct]

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It's the pixel pitch thing i did not understand. Curious how focus accuracy can depend on it.

[algrove]

PP has nothing to do with focusing except when using a 24MP SL2S ( and possibly the SL3S to come soon), which incidentally has a high PP (5.94). The only other camera I own that comes close to this is the GFX 50S II (PP5.31) versus the M11 (PP3.76) and GFX 100S II (PP3.76 incidentally).

Large PP, say in the 5-6 range for me, contributes to my favoring many images versus low PP images generated by most later model cameras from Leica, Fuji, Hasselblad etc except when using older classic lenses.

I personally prefer the rendering of cameras with high PP numbers. mostly 24MP 35mm cameras.  I have come to realize this since owning high PP and low PP cameras. Then I tried to combine high PP and a high dot EVF camera which takes M lenses as well while making focusing easier for me. It is rare to find a 24MP sensor on a high dot EVF camera which makes focusing easier for me with M lenses. Further, I often find low PP images take more post processing than high PP images to get to my desired outcome. I do not consider myself an expert at processing so perhaps that is my biggest downfall with using low PP cameras.

Sorry to confuse the subject with the mention of high PP, but I find high PP images more to my liking these days even though I continue to use low PP cameras. I am trying to combine low PP cameras with various lenses in order to get images I instinctively like. This is a long process and is highly subjective, but fun to investigate.

[lct]

1 minute ago, algrove said:

PP has nothing to do with focusing [...]

That's what i understood too but i wonder if pixel pitch car play a role in the calculation of the circle of confusion. Never mind i can live well w/o knowing that 😎

[algrove]

16 hours ago, algrove said:

My vote will be for the SL3S-24MP pixel pitch (PP) of 5.94 um. The M240 had a PP of 6.05 and the M10 (24MP) had the same PP of 6.05. Both were my favorite looking images and most still are today.

 

That said the EVF on an SF camera makes for easy use of M lenses for my old eyes.

Typo I mean, the EVF on an SL camera...

[Deeetona]

Are we discussion the solution to a problem that does not really exists, or is merely a personal preference?

[IkarusJohn]

4 hours ago, algrove said:

I am not concentrating on focusing as much as the image produced by a higher PP over a lower PP camera. For my eye using an SL camera makes for easier focusing FOR ME. This might not be true for everyone. 

Try focusing with an M lens on an SL body and then reflect on the experience over using the same lens on an M camera. That is all I'm suggesting. Many who do not approve of using an SL camera for M lenses might have never tried using an M lens on an SL body.

If focus is critical, I use the EVF on my M10-D with my Noctilux and my 75 Summilux. That’s it.  I do use those lenses on my SL.  I also use M lenses on my TL2 as I have no TL lenses.  The TL2 has a smaller pixel pltch than the other 2 cameras. I do use an APO Elmarit-R 180/2.8 on my X2D, but dislike the electronic shutter.  The image produced by the smaller pixel pitch can be pleasing (useful for cropping - not my thing) but I suspect there’s more happening.

Generally, my experience has been that M lenses work very well on these other systems. The Noctilux on the X2D has interesting results, though you do need to crop.  But manual focusing with the EVF (any EVF) is not as fast, or reliably accurate, as the RF on an M camera.

The problem I HAVE with focusing M lenses with EVF cameras is wides. I like putting my 28 Summaron onto my TL2, but there’s no point trying to achieve accurate focus. I use the scale on the lens.  I do use my SL more with M lenses than my one remaining L mount lens.

Edited January 15 by IkarusJohn

[algrove]

There we go. M10D is a large PP, no?

[IkarusJohn]

29 minutes ago, algrove said:

There we go. M10D is a large PP, no?

Both the SL & M10-D are 24MP in full frame format, so I’m not convinced that pixel pitch is a factor. 

[algrove]

As mentioned, I just like images produced by large PP sensors like the SL2S and M10/P/D. Yes, they happen to have 24MP FF sensors.

[geotrupede]

M11 as you can pick the resolution? warning 60 is addictive and wasteful of your HD... once you try cannot go back.

[algrove]

True I have been tempted, but just leave it on L DNG

[Alobelo]

On the pixel pitch discussion:

When I use M11 + Summicron 50mm handheld I get a fair percentage of rejected shots due to camera shake blur. That's 60MP on full frame sensor, so pretty dense pixels, low PP. Maybe 60MP non-stabilised sensor and non-stabilised lens is just too much?

When I use Canon 5D MKIV + 85 handheld (both camera sensor and lens without image stabilisation) I'm almost certain that the rejection rate due to camera shake is lower. That is 30MP on full frame, so lower density, high PP.

I'm actually considering trying M lenses on lower resolution M body, i.e. with higher PP or better still SL body, as it's sensor would be image stabilised as well - this should drastically reduce the rejection rate related to camera shake. SL3S-24MP might indeed be the best option, just as suggested in the first post.

Not a fan of EVF focusing though - so it remains to be seen if I will just have more out of focus images 🙂 

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[algrove]

11 minutes ago, Alobelo said:

On the pixel pitch discussion:

When I use M11 + Summicron 50mm handheld I get a fair percentage of rejected shots due to camera shake blur. That's 60MP on full frame sensor, so pretty dense pixels, low PP. Maybe 60MP non-stabilised sensor and non-stabilised lens is just too much?

When I use Canon 5D MKIV + 85 handheld (both camera sensor and lens without image stabilisation) I'm almost certain that the rejection rate due to camera shake is lower. That is 30MP on full frame, so lower density, high PP.

I'm actually considering trying M lenses on lower resolution M body, i.e. with higher PP or better still SL body, as it's sensor would be image stabilised as well - this should drastically reduce the rejection rate related to camera shake. SL3S-24MP might indeed be the best option, just as suggested in the first post.

Not a fan of EVF focusing though - so it remains to be seen if I will just have more out of focus images 🙂 

I understand your concern about EVF focusing which is basically looking at a small TV screen. That aside I have been slowly accepting that even though I very much like using my RF Leicas.

For difficult to nail focus lenses (50/0.95 and at times 75/1.4) seem to work well with the EVF approach and that combined with a pleasing result of the 24MP sensor could become my sweet spot usage scenario.

To summarize:

So the 60MP or 100MP cameras yield fine details which can be advantageous for landscape or extreme cropping plus scientific use etc.
As for the 24MP and high Pixel Pitch (PP) cameras (say PP5 and above) they seem to yield images more natural and authentic to me which could also be described as less digital looking . I find this output more useful for street and portrait use where it has more of a film like feeling. That's just me.

[lct]

Different experience and/or feeling here. I have both high res and low res sensor cameras and i use them the same way with similar results besides color rendering irrelevant with resolution. My only problem with high res sensors is blur due to slow shutter speeds when IBIS is not implemented. Should be fixed with the M12 hopefully but for now, setting shutter speeds to 1/(2f)s is enough to solve the issue on the M11 AFAIC. YMMV.