Steadimann Posted January 13 Share #1 Posted January 13 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello all, so I have received my M9P and decided to test it against M11P. Took the same lens - 35 Summilux fle II, shot two things - colour chart and just a room. By no means this is a scientific comparison, but just a general one. After shooting a small even with M9P I can tell that M9P has great AWB. But... if you get correct BW in M11P, it's really hard to tell a difference. It's there, but it's not like night and day. Check if you can tell which is which without looking at metadata. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418553-m11-colours-vs-m9/?do=findComment&comment=5739011'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Hi Steadimann, Take a look here M11 colours vs M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Steadimann Posted January 13 Author Share #2 Posted January 13 Second: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418553-m11-colours-vs-m9/?do=findComment&comment=5739012'>More sharing options...
Steadimann Posted January 13 Author Share #3 Posted January 13 I am amazed at how good M9 files look having in mind it's a 15 year old camera... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsonj Posted January 13 Share #4 Posted January 13 I think the second one is the M9 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 13 Share #5 Posted January 13 Always loved the color of the M9. Those Kodak CCDs were really great. I bet the first post is the M9; second set is the M11. But there are so many variables... The 11P is an altogether much better camera, for me, anyway. With the way I work from RAW files, and not caring about SOOC JPGs, the color from the M11P is superb. Having said that, I hate AWB in general, and never use it on *any* digital camera. I always set it manually. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted January 13 Share #6 Posted January 13 vor 14 Minuten schrieb Steadimann: But... if you get correct BW in M11P, it's really hard to tell a difference. It's there, but it's not like night and day. I guess you mean WB and not BW? Well, not night and day but also not hard to tell a difference. To me, the second looks more saturated with shifted orange and turquoise - which should be the M9. What kind of postprocessing was applied? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadimann Posted January 13 Author Share #7 Posted January 13 Advertisement (gone after registration) 42 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said: I guess you mean WB and not BW? Well, not night and day but also not hard to tell a difference. To me, the second looks more saturated with shifted orange and turquoise - which should be the M9. What kind of postprocessing was applied? I meant WB, mistype, sorry. You are correct, second is M9. There is no post processing except setting WB at the same spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeetona Posted January 13 Share #8 Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Steadimann said: Check if you can tell which is which without looking at metadata. Of course. The one which looks more film-like. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 14 Share #9 Posted January 14 The wall and the green of the painting is popping in the M9 btw, it looks like a modern men cave! LOL 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted January 14 Share #10 Posted January 14 At low iso, the M9 has its own look. Hard to match. I don't have an M11 but do have a M10 which is fabulous at high iso. Always choose the tool for the job. All my images are hand balanced/corrected, mainly because in the course of a shoot I encounter many varied lighting situations. When my image 'looks' right, it is right. I don't bother with targets and colour patches. They don't suit me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 14 Share #11 Posted January 14 9 hours ago, Steadimann said: Hello all, so I have received my M9P and decided to test it against M11P. Took the same lens - 35 Summilux fle II, shot two things - colour chart and just a room. By no means this is a scientific comparison, but just a general one. After shooting a small even with M9P I can tell that M9P has great AWB. But... if you get correct BW in M11P, it's really hard to tell a difference. It's there, but it's not like night and day. Check if you can tell which is which without looking at metadata. Is that a JPEG output? If not, the colors are much influenced by the post-processor and color profile used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadimann Posted January 14 Author Share #12 Posted January 14 The output is DNG but all of the file are exported from Lightroom, adobe colour space. Don't think there is any diffence when it's all done in same environment. This is a typical situation - shot under LED lights in the office, AWB, zero corrections, export from Lightroom. Skintones are fabulous. 35Apo lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418553-m11-colours-vs-m9/?do=findComment&comment=5739229'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14 Share #13 Posted January 14 28 minutes ago, Steadimann said: The output is DNG but all of the file are exported from Lightroom, adobe colour space. Don't think there is any diffence when it's all done in same environment. This is a typical situation - shot under LED lights in the office, AWB, zero corrections, export from Lightroom. Skintones are fabulous. 35Apo lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! So that explains why they look flat in Safari on my secondary screen which is sRGB. . I already thought as much It did not have time to check the colour space Images for use on the web must be sRGB. Not all browsers support Adobe RGB properly nor do all interact correctly with all monitors. If you want everyone to see the colour of your photographs properly you must export them in sRGB. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadimann Posted January 14 Author Share #14 Posted January 14 They are exported in sRGB, i know that they have to be exported in that. Colour profile is Adobe RGB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14 Share #15 Posted January 14 In that case the colour profile is sRGB. During conversion of colours spaces the outlying colours get shifted irrevocably. I'll just avoid Safari - it obviously does not play well with my secondary monitor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14 Share #16 Posted January 14 As @SrMi suggested, the Adobe Standard profile, upon which all the other Adobe Profiles are based, is customised for each supported camera body to provide a certain degree of (Adobe defined) consistency. So the Lightroom DNG processing for the M9 will be different to the M11. Effectively, there is no such thing as the "real" DNG look. Out of interest, on a Mac, you can examine the Lightroom Classic Application package and you will see a directory, "Contents/Resources/CameraProfiles/Adobe Standard", containing the specific Adobe Standard profile for each camera body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14 Share #17 Posted January 14 Correct. DNG is not an image file to which a colour space could be assigned. The colour space is assigned in raw conversion. In Lightroom the DNG takes place to the user-specified space during export. During editing LR uses Prophoto and converts to the previews on the fly. Profiles are something else. They are postprocessing presets, either by "instructions" sent by the camera, provided by the processing software or defined by the user. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadimann Posted January 14 Author Share #18 Posted January 14 Okay, but so what? We're still processing all files in software and while I understand the logic that Adobe might interpret their 'Adobe color' profile in different ways depending on camera model/sensor, we're doing it the same way and getting the results we are getting. Or are you saying, that if we shoot Jpeg on two cameras with same white balance,same conditions, camera's internal jpeg interpretation will vary much more as if it that would be in Adobe? Maybe, I did not test that during my lifetime, but then again, I would extremely rarely shoot and use jpeg made by camera. It does make sense with GFX100 as files are monstrous, but other than that, using M9, M11 I would not be using jpeg, so imho it does not make much sense comparing plain jpeg even if it would look differently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14 Share #19 Posted January 14 I think the key thing is that one can't really say "Here are two DNGs, which colours do you prefer", one should qualify it by saying "Here are two DNGs, which Lightroom rendering do you prefer?" If you do the same experiment in Capture One the renderings will be different. It's the same as comparing two jpegs from different cameras. "Do you prefer the M11 STD jpeg or the M9 STD jpeg". The only difference is where the DNG rendering/conversion has taken place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 14 Share #20 Posted January 14 2 hours ago, Steadimann said: Or are you saying, that if we shoot Jpeg on two cameras with same white balance,same conditions, camera's internal jpeg interpretation will vary much more as if it that would be in Adobe? Unfortunately yes If you open the same image in LrC, Capture One and Dxo, or any other, you will find big differences in the reproduction of color and tones without any ajustment. Using Adobe Color you apply an initial interpretation of a raw file. There is no standard here. I find the calibration profiles from Capture One to be the closest to the original sensor look and calculation that you get from the JPG. Thanks for sharing, it still shows the look difference they had in mind with the M9, and you could replicate it in post with an M11 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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