35mm lens between Summilux Pre-asph, Summicron v1 8e or Nokton 1.4 II SC, Or another one?

[cesc]

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Hi all,

I know this question has probably been asked a lot, but I’m hoping to get some fresh perspectives based on my specific needs. I’m currently looking for a 35mm lens for my MP film camera that will give me a distinct "vintage look" for darkroom printing, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on a few options I’ve been considering. ( I had FLE and Summicron ASPH, and it was too conntrasty and perfect for me)

I’ve been eyeing the Leica Pre Asph Summilux, which is known for its classic rendering, as well as the beautiful "Leica glow" at 1.4.

Another option I’m considering is the Leica Summicron v1 the 8-element version. I've read if I am only shooting BW this is the lens to go to. I’m drawn to its vintage charm, but I’d like to know how it compares in terms of overall sharpness and contrast with the other lenses I’m considering.

I’m also looking at the Voigtlander Nokton 1.4 SC v2, which has a more modern build but still delivers a classic rendering, with a creamy bokeh and solid low-light performance. While it’s a bit more affordable than the Leica lenses, I’m curious if it can deliver the “vintage” aesthetic I’m aiming for when printed in the darkroom.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on how these lenses perform on film, particularly in terms of their rendering and how they might look in darkroom prints. Which of these would offer the best balance of vintage look, sharpness, and character for both portrait and street photography? Also, if you have any other recommendations for lenses that might give a similar vintage feel, either from Leica or other brands, I’d love to hear them!

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences. Thanks in advance for your help!

 

P.S. If that helps I am actually owning a 50 lux asph and I feel it's too clinical, I am considering to "downgrade " to a more vintage 50mm lens

[lct]

Good choice. As far as f/1.4 lenses are concerned, the Summilux 35/1.4 pre-asph has more coma, glow, flare and focus shift than the Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2. It is also softer at f1.4. In this, the Summilux shows its age but it has also less distortion than the Nokton. Distortion is easy to fix in digital but i don't remember how these lenses behave on film sorry. As for the Summicron 35/2 v1, it is not limited to BW. On digital, at least, it does very well in color. It has less coma, glow, flare and focus shift than the Summilux, both being brillant re distortion and CA. Only significant con of the Summicron is vignetting and softness at f/2 IMHO. Flare can also be an issue if you don't like it. Not a problem in digital but i have no experience with this lens on film sorry. Happy snaps 🙂

 

[evikne]

I might add that the Summilux pre-ASPH has a 1m stated minimum focus distance (actually closer to 0.9m), while all the other lenses have 0.7m. 

The 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH is a nice alternative if you want to “downgrade” your ASPH. It has a more gentle look, but still very usable. Version 3 (E46) has 0.7m MFD and built-in hood.

[cesc]

Thanks

16 minutes ago, lct said:

Good choice. As far as f/1.4 lenses are concerned, the Summilux 35/1.4 pre-asph has more coma, glow, flare and focus shift than the Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2. It is also softer at f1.4. In this, the Summilux shows its age but it has also less distortion than the Nokton. Distortion is easy to fix in digital but i don't remember how these lenses behave on film sorry. As for the Summicron 35/2 v1, it is not limited to BW. On digital, at least, it does very well in color. It has less coma, glow, flare and focus shift than the Summilux, both being brillant re distortion and CA. Only significant con of the Summicron is vignetting and softness at f/2 IMHO. Flare can also be an issue if you don't like it. Not a problem in digital but i have no experience with this lens on film sorry. Happy snaps 🙂

 

Thanks for your reply. I am only going to use it on film, I don't own anymore digital M bodies. Also if that could helps, I am looking to reach the style of images of Joakim Kocjancic, Machiel Botman, Giacomo Brunelli.

 

[lct]

1 minute ago, evikne said:

I might add that the Summilux pre-ASPH has a 1m stated minimum focus distance (actually closer to 0.9m), while all the other lenses have 0.7m. 

1m on the Summicron 35/2 v1 too, as far as my LTM copy is concerned at least.

[Deeetona]

Just reading some reviews - seems to be a great lens:

 

https://classic.leica-camera.com/de/Leica-Summicron-M-35mm-f-2-V1-8-Element-11308/11308SH-1780328

 

[TomB_tx]

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I have both the original Summicron 35 8 element and the new LLL copy of it, Looks, feel, quality of the LLL copy is identical, so that I can't tell which I am using, and results are so close I can't tell from the pictures either. The LLL also won't need a CLA to replace dried-out lube.

I also use the 35 Nokton 1.4 on film quite a bit for its 1.4 aperture. The distortion people talk about is detectable on a few shots if you look for it, but has never bothered me. I also don't find its vignetting objectionable. It's the "minimal-risk-to-try-out" choice due to its low cost. I got mine as a logical and economical substitute for the original Summilux

I think any of your options would be fine, but you'll likely wonder if the one you didn't buy would have been better. So you should be prepared to eventually  get them all...

[BrettWayne]

1 hour ago, cesc said:

Thanks

Thanks for your reply. I am only going to use it on film, I don't own anymore digital M bodies. Also if that could helps, I am looking to reach the style of images of Joakim Kocjancic, Machiel Botman, Giacomo Brunelli.

 

Looking at work from these 3 photographers - definitely the last 2 aren’t using Leica cameras / lenses  - Botman seems to shoot with fixed lens 35mm film and Brunelli with a 1960’s Miranda SLR.  I might suggest for a real vintage Leica look go for a slower older lens with flare and “character” like a Summaron 35/3.5 or 2.8, or if you’re really wanting a fast lens the VM Nokton 35 SC you’d mentioned. I also got a lot of fun out of a Paxette Staeble-Choro 38/3.5 using stacked adapters on my Zeiss SW using zone focus @5.6. 

What film?

[cesc]

3 minutes ago, BrettWayne said:

Looking at work from these 3 photographers - definitely the last 2 aren’t using Leica cameras / lenses  - Botman seems to shoot with fixed lens 35mm film and Brunelli with a 1960’s Miranda SLR.  I might suggest for a real vintage Leica look go for a slower older lens with flare and “character” like a Summaron 35/3.5 or 2.8, or if you’re really wanting a fast lens the VM Nokton 35 SC you’d mentioned. I also got a lot of fun out of a Paxette Staeble-Choro 38/3.5 using stacked adapters on my Zeiss SW using zone focus @5.6. 

What film?

TriX in d-76 1+1 for 13 min and HP5 pushed 800 In rodinal for 9 min if I am not wrong now

[Deeetona]

I would like to second the Summaron 35/3.5 suggestion. It is an experiment that requires minimal investment (in Leica terms).

[cesc]

Just now, Deeetona said:

I would like to second the Summaron 35/3.5 suggestion. It is an experiment that requires minimal investment (in Leica terms).

Better than the 2.8?

[Deeetona]

I have no first-experience with either of them. But those kind of lenses might be a cheap fix for the OP's desire for a vintage/retro look.

[BrettWayne]

5 minutes ago, cesc said:

Better than the 2.8?

3.5 better imo. But really it could be any older slower lens since you’re shooting b&w. If you want RF coupling of course stick with a Leica mount. 

Edited January 12 by BrettWayne

[BrettWayne]

I would also suggest going to Flickr and searching for a lens of interest. 
 

Also, if you want to just add a vintage look to a modern lens, it’s easy to put on a step down ring or 2 to get vignette and use whatever filter or Vaseline of choice on a uv filter for peripheral softness. 

[hansvons]

3 hours ago, cesc said:

P.S. If that helps I am actually owning a 50 lux asph and I feel it's too clinical, I am considering to "downgrade " to a more vintage 50mm lens

You are shooting film. I do so, too, and never had a shot that made me say, yikes this looks clinically. Film ≠ clinical.

I have no idea how you plan your photography voyage. However, it makes sense that you try 35mm, as this is a well-fitting focal length for what you look for, and, by the way, for the MP‘s VF the most natural field of view (and beyond. I shoot 95% on a 35mm lens).

That said, a well-kept 8-Element is astonishingly expensive and brings you to no better place than the Nokton SC, which is basically a copy of a Summilux V1 only mechanically better-made, and perhaps a tad less soft. The latter makes sense especially in B&W because B&W loves sharpness. Also, the Nokton is new, much less costly, opening up budget for lots of film rolls, as the actual shooting is where the magic happens.

Personally, I‘d develop the Tri-X in Xtol because it looks same/similar to D76 but is more environment-friendly. Lastly, for those inky shadows (Brunelli), I‘d try RPX 400s, which is a fine-grained ISO 100 film that has a manufacturer-issued dev-time of two-stops-pushing 12 minutes, giving it a box speed of ISO 400. 

[cesc]

7 minutes ago, hansvons said:

You are shooting film. I do so, too, and never had a shot that made me say, yikes this looks clinically. Film ≠ clinical.

I have no idea how you plan your photography voyage. However, it makes sense that you try 35mm, as this is a well-fitting focal length for what you look for, and, by the way, for the MP‘s VF the most natural field of view (and beyond. I shoot 95% on a 35mm lens).

That said, a well-kept 8-Element is astonishingly expensive and brings you to no better place than the Nokton SC, which is basically a copy of a Summilux V1 only mechanically better-made, and perhaps a tad less soft. The latter makes sense especially in B&W because B&W loves sharpness. Also, the Nokton is new, much less costly, opening up budget for lots of film rolls, as the actual shooting is where the magic happens.

Personally, I‘d develop the Tri-X in Xtol because it looks same/similar to D76 but is more environment-friendly. Lastly, for those inky shadows (Brunelli), I‘d try RPX 400s, which is a fine-grained ISO 100 film that has a manufacturer-issued dev-time of two-stops-pushing 12 minutes, giving it a box speed of ISO 400. 

That's so interesting and Really helpful! I am going to try RPX 400 at 12 min in Xtol? IS that right? Or RPX 100 pushed to 400? Thanks for the reply

[hansvons]

4 hours ago, cesc said:

While it’s a bit more affordable than the Leica lenses, I’m curious if it can deliver the “vintage” aesthetic I’m aiming for when printed in the darkroom.

The Nokton isn‘t a bit more affordable than the original Summilux. It’s six times cheaper.

I hold it in high regards because i) it delivers what you would expect from a Summilux V1 copy in terms of rendering, ii) its built quality is on par with Leica (better?), and iii) the front focus issues of the V1 are resolved, making it a highly reliable companion.

@lct already mentioned its Archilles heel, which is in a digital workflow a non-issue as any occurring barrel distortion (only very slight) can easily be remedied. At f/1.4, it glows like the real thing and flares whenever shot again strong backlight. A modern, highly moody interpretation of a 60s vintage super speed lens. Love it and will never sell it. 

[hansvons]

8 minutes ago, cesc said:

That's so interesting and Really helpful! I am going to try RPX 400 at 12 min in Xtol? IS that right? Or RPX 100 pushed to 400? Thanks for the reply

Just follow the manufacturer’s recommended dev time. What I tried to say was that this film has an inbuilt 2-stop-push that is responsible for the inky blacks. 

To achieve the same inky shadows with Tri-X you need to shoot it at ISO1600 and develop it accordingly which will bring out tons of grain. Rollei’s RPX-400s is probably an arial film with an extended IR range that comes in as ISO 100 but is marketed as ISO 400 with that unusual long dev time. Try it. You won't regret it.

[hansvons]

26 minutes ago, cesc said:

I am going to try RPX 400

No!! It’s Rollei Retro 400s. NOT RPX 400. Apologies for the confusion.

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Hallo,

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[spydrxx]

Having owned most of the 35s mentioned, for a genuine "vintage" look I'd point to the 2.8 Summaron. However good copies are pricey these days and the 3.5 is almost as good at a much more affordable price. The Nokton, IMHO, while delivering excellent results at a reasonable price, isn't really a vintage look producer...wide open, yes, dreamy, but hardly vintage as one closes down. My experiences with the Summacrons was that, at least to me, were too harsh and clinical. YMMV.