Brainfog: M-A 127 or M2?

[Deeetona]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello, Leica community!

I am about to buy a film RF Leica, and i am torn between a pre-owned contemporary chrome M-A, or a vintage M2 which I would then have restored to a nearly-new level (mechanically and aesthetically).

Of course, these cannot be compared like for like. One is almost new, one is 70 years old. There is a substantial difference in terms of pricing, and I wonder whether buying the M-A "and be done with it" is the way to go, or to buy a M2 and do a "rolling restauration", fix things as they come, step by step, maybe even let the camera look a bit shabby.

I know that no-one can make that decision for me. From mistakes I made in the past, buying a M-A seems to be a better option. What is your view on my first world problem?

Thank you,

Dirk

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[pedaes]

Welcome to the Forum.

If you are buying to use, a 'rolling restoration' will take camera out for many weeks at a time.and it would still be a seventy year old camera. I would go with M-A.

[twogun]

Although I've had several opportunities to get the M-A I've passed on it. I've instead stuck with the M2/M4 since I prefer the older vintage bodies.  The M-A bodies are nice and newer but I don't feel it offers anything different than the M2 or M4.  You can start splitting hairs with differences ie the viewfinder coatings etc but for me personally the M-A is covered already by the M2 or M4 esp if you get a clean body.  If you decide to get the M2 I would recommend adding a "quick loader" on it so you don't have to respool film manually. I think it's worth it. 

FYI  I have a collection of most of the the analog M bodies starting from M3,M2,M5, M4, M6 and MP with the exception of the M-A for the reason I mentioned earlier. If you're considering an M2 restoration project then account for time and cost required to get the body upto your spec vs getting a newer M-A body. That's a personal decision that only you can make.

Edited January 8 by twogun

[Deeetona]

I forgot to add: 35mm is a "must", so no M3 for me. I also don't like the many logos and dots on the M4-P/5/6/7, therefore it is really about the M2 or M-A (or M-P).

I am also prone to "what if" post-purchase blues. If I buy a M2 (or M4), which cost me 1500-2000 EUR, I am already "half way" there for a M-A, which is a vanity purchase and which can wait until I have drummed up the funds, whereas i doubt that I would ever think "oh had I just bought the shabby M2 instead of my shine new M-A". Well, I love shabby vintage cameras...

Edited January 8 by Deeetona

[lexffm]

Have you taken photos with M cameras before or would this be your first? If so and you are already familiar with the rangefinder, the M2 is probably OK. The M-A has a really good and very bright viewfinder, in my opinion the best of all film cameras. Which would be a bit better for a start, I think.

[Deeetona]

Yes I know the RF system in general. It is about making the right decision - "plug and play" vs. "rolling restaurantion".

[costa43]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Unless you need 28mm framelines then my suggestion is to get the m2 and a 35mm Summicron/Summilux and go live the film dream..

[250swb]

14 minutes ago, Deeetona said:

Yes I know the RF system in general. It is about making the right decision - "plug and play" vs. "rolling restaurantion".

If you haven't used a film rangefinder before get the one with the most viewfinder frames, which is the M-A that has six against the M2 that has three. You then give yourself the option of exploring a far wider ranges of lenses, some of which you don't yet have a craving for, and decide later down the road if you want to refine your choices. I think the M2 is the best purist M camera Leica ever made, if it suits you, but I don't use mine by default (instead an M4-P or MP) because I'm not a purist and would rather enjoy the idea of a wider range of lenses in my toolkit.

Edited January 8 by 250swb

[earleygallery]

If you choose an M2 just buy the nicest example you can find, from a dealer who guarantees it to be in good working order. 

[f8low]

Much depends on how you’ve planed the "rolling restauration" and to what degree you‘ll be enjoying it.

[ktmrider2]

As much as I am enjoying my new MP (March, 2024), Leica got something right with the M2.  It is my favorite film body primarily because of the single frame lines in the viewfinder.  If 35 is your favorite focal length, than you owe it to yourself to try the M2.  And if you don’t like it you can sell it for exactly what you paid for it!  Can’t do that with an MA or not as likely to do that with an MA.  The cluttered viewfinder of either the MA or MP is a PIA compared to an M2.  If you want to read the about the M2, go over to “rangefinder forum” and check out the thread under Tom Abrahamson. 

I admit I shoot 35/50/90 and do not own a 75.  The full viewfinder works for 28 (the 28 frame lines are basically the full frame for the .72 which move a bit for parallax) and the 135f2.8 with goggles covers 135 on the rare occasion when I want something longer than 90.  Now I could have the extra frame lines removed from my MP by a tech but Leica prices are nutty enough already.  

By the way, I have searched for a M2R on and off for years (admittedly not hard) and recently in Bangkok I purchased a Q3 from AV Camera.  They had pretty good feedback here and had 4 M2’s in stock, 3 were M2R’s.  I guarantee you could sell an M2R for what you pay for it.

If you wanted a new MA, then a M2 would not give you that feeling but since you are looking at used.  I would get the M2 but either would be a fine choice.  I think the M2 has more of a “wow” factor but that is me.  I would look at Tamarkin as their cameras are CLA’ed before sale and they offer a return guarantee or perhaps Sherry or Don have one for sale.

[Deeetona]

7 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

M2, go over to “rangefinder forum” and check out the thread under Tom Abrahamson. 

Thanks, found this: "It is usually easier to find a "mintish" M4 than an M2/M3"

[Deeetona]

Addendum: I only have a 35mm and a 50mm lens and will keep it that way. 28mm never worked for me, neither did longer lenses (handheld).

[jgeenen]

A used Leica is like a used car. Well serviced it could virtually run forever and is as good as a new one. Unlike a car, wear of critical parts is less of an issue. There is no need for an explicit rolling maintenance - it usually just works for many years like a new one before requiring service. However, you never know what the previous owners did with the camera - was it used and stored properly, was it maintained by experts or tinkered in a shady workshop.

so, get a used camera from a trusted source with warranty and recent (documented) service that is not beaten up (except of cosmetic issues) and you will be happy (most likely). Don‘t hunt for cheap, rusty or hazy bargains (unless you have to, but then Leica might not be a wise decision anyhow).

 

[jgeenen]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Deeetona:

Thanks, found this: "It is usually easier to find a "mintish" M4 than an M2/M3"

Because so many folks admire M2 and M3, the M4 is overlooked often and typically less expensive. In fact, the M4 series is the most reasonably priced M you will find nowadays

[archive_all]

Another vote for getting an M2. I've compared both and a good serviced M2 is as nice as an M-A. Mine has coated windows so the VF comparing the two was equal to the new models. If you're going to just shoot 35mm and 50mm lenses then the M2 with the clean frame lines is a great choice. The only downside, I think, is film loading but there are upgrade kits to modernize that.

[Deeetona]

Thanks. Bottleneck seems to be finding a good M2. Will also keep my eyes open for a M4, and of course a M-A, which does not seem to be so difficult. The going rate for silver M-As (ca 4000 EUR) carries premium of ca. 2000 EUR over a CLA'd superb M2 with main dealer warranty in top condition. 33 EUR / year for the 60 year age difference...but why not. It is not a rational purchase anyway...

On the other hand (sigh) the idea of buying a M2 was to. use it as a travel camera so it can get dinged or lost or stolen.

[ktmrider2]

I shot with a mint black chrome 50th anniversary M4 before purchasing my MP in March, 2024.  Its viewfinder is not quite as good (135 frameline which is very small and easy to ignore).  I do prefer the modern film loading of the M4.  The M2 vs M4 advance levers and rewind knob vs crank make absolutely no difference IMHO.  

A quick check at Tamarkin shows three M2’s priced from US $1750 to $1850.  Tamarkin has one silver M4 at $1750 and two black chrome M4’s at $3750.  Black paint M4’s are above $10000.  Tamarkin also has a couple M4-2 and M4-P’s listed.  It looks to me that you can get three M2’s for the price of a new MA.  And Tamarkin has a great return policy and CLA’s their cameras before sale.  Price is based on cosmetic condition.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[spydrxx]

I used an M4 for over 40 years and loved it. Somewhere along the way I thought the in camera metering and additional framelines would be useful and had an M6 for two years....really hated it compared to the M4, and sold it for what I had paid. When I encountered visual issues 15 years ago I decided that rangefinders would give way to SLRs, and besides digital was looming on the horizon, so I sold the beloved M4. But I found that I really missed the rangefinder experience, and as my eyesight became better corrected I searched for a good M4...but they were too pricey. Instead I found a somewhat cosmetically distressed M2 at bargain basement price, and knew I could recover it inexpensively, and, if needed, get a CLA at a reasonable price. It turned out to be a great decision, as I've always favored the 35mm lenses, and the M2 was just perfect for me. I can't speak for others, but suggest if you can, try out the M2...like me, you may fall in love with it. If not, you can always sell it and look to other options.

[DigitalHeMan]

Personally I think I would go for an M4 or an M6. More recent, good cost-performance, and the M6 has a meter. Either are probably less likely to give you problems on the road than a fixer-upper M2