M9 as an investment? :D

[charlesphoto99]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

My M9 had the sensor replaced by Leica. It's far from an 'investment,' lol. The best investment was the thousands of wonderful photos I took with it. Still think about shooting it more than I do, but have to drag out some ear protectors for the CLACK/WHIRR it does compared to my M10-R and M10M. 😄

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb charlesphoto99:

... CLACK/WHIRR ...

...was one of the reasons, why I bought it 🙂

[Steadimann]

1 hour ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

...was one of the reasons, why I bought it 🙂

I like it too

[Topsy]

I don't think any of mine would count as investmants. 🤣 Although they all have certified corrosion proof sensors.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[BLeventhal]

1 hour ago, Topsy said:

I don't think any of mine would count as investmants. 🤣 Although they all have certified corrosion proof sensors.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

I love that body on the left... nothing say's I'm loved like a bit of brass throughout!

I'm waiting on mine to come back from Kolari with corrosion-free glass. It's an old gray one, but wish it were brassy and black...  but hey, @ $1050 w/ a shutter count of 3500, getting a gray body seemed just fine to me.  

[Topsy]

14 hours ago, BLeventhal said:

I love that body on the left... nothing say's I'm loved like a bit of brass throughout!

I'm waiting on mine to come back from Kolari with corrosion-free glass. It's an old gray one, but wish it were brassy and black...  but hey, @ $1050 w/ a shutter count of 3500, getting a gray body seemed just fine to me.  

Thanks, since I took that shot that particular M9 has developed a shutter issue, when it is cold (5 degrees or lower) the shutter struggles to re-cock, it sounds like an old film camera motordrive tryint to re-cock and often doesn't manage to in which case I need to remove the battery and re-insert it, that usually fixes it. It works fine in the warmer weather so I just use it then.

I have replaced it with this;

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[BLeventhal]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

4 hours ago, Topsy said:

Thanks, since I took that shot that particular M9 has developed a shutter issue, when it is cold (5 degrees or lower) the shutter struggles to re-cock, it sounds like an old film camera motordrive tryint to re-cock and often doesn't manage to in which case I need to remove the battery and re-insert it, that usually fixes it. It works fine in the warmer weather so I just use it then.

I have replaced it with this;

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This one is a beauty.. Looks to be an M9-P... I love the look of the "P" cameras.

I recently purchased an M240... according to the pictures it's black and brassy on the edges. The camera is stuck in USPS Hell. It was supposed to arrive on 12/9, and I'm now hoping to get it next week. I would have purchased a 2nd M9 in black, but ones with repaired sensors cost more than the M that i purchased... while not an investment, a good M9 holds its value.

bruce

[Topsy]

17 minutes ago, BLeventhal said:

This one is a beauty.. Looks to be an M9-P... I love the look of the "P" cameras.

I recently purchased an M240... according to the pictures it's black and brassy on the edges. The camera is stuck in USPS Hell. It was supposed to arrive on 12/9, and I'm now hoping to get it next week. I would have purchased a 2nd M9 in black, but ones with repaired sensors cost more than the M that i purchased... while not an investment, a good M9 holds its value.

bruce

Correct Bruce, M9-P I actually sourced it as a result of this thread   

    particullarly post 12 by @M9reno (thanks again BTW).

[ArjanB]

I just recently spoke about this with a Leica store employee and they told me the regular M9's are not really wanted. The Leica M9P's still are. And off course special editions are always wanted.

Personally I wouldn't 'invest' in digital camera's. I'd rather put some money in bitcoin than in a camera that sits unused in a closet.

[pippy]

3 hours ago, Quarterpounder said:

While you assumptions might be correct, I believe that a dealer would always state a fact such as a sensor replacement, if it has been done. For experts like them, it takes just a look.

So while you are right......some caution is needed (who would ever sell a perfect M9 with a replaced sensor?...

About your statement in a later post (re spending more than the bottom end of the market), you might be right or wrong. A worn but looked after M can be a bargain. When searching for a 240/246 I never found such a camera. They were either shelf queens, or heavily used examples without any accompanying paperwork. I ended up buying one in Wetzlar's shop, at the very top end of the market price range, with an extra (new) battery thrown in, a full CLA with paperwork done a few weeks ago, 12 months of full warranty (not "Gewährleistung" which under German consumer protection law is a much weaker variant of a warranty), and the (for me) reassuring feeling that whenever something is off, I can simply drive there and speak to nice people I know and who know me.

The "premium" I paid over Ebay offers from "decent" pre-owned Leica dealers - about 500-700 EUR. Maybe one from a private seller might have been 1-200 EUR cheaper, I don't know. The premium I paid does not really matter much, in the wider context of things. It will be long forgotten when the camera is still there.

I agree with all you say.

I've only ever bought my M cameras through dealerships. I wouldn't trust going down the eBay route for such an item; the risk is simply not worth taking.

Whilst I can't speak for anywhere else the highly-regarded dealers in London with whom I've spoken, since the v2 cover-glass became available, have a policy that they will not sell an M9 with the older sensor unless full disclosure is stated and understood by a prospective purchaser. Such a camera will only be be sold in 'As Seen' condition and the possibility of cover-glass corrosion will not be covered under warranty. At least one dealer will not handle an M9 under any conditions.

As to the question of "Who would sell a perfect M9"? I don't know the state of the market nowadays so can't say for certain. After the release of the M10 the market was full of M9 cameras which had been traded-in against the newer model. Some four years ago(?) my own M Monochrom came on the market in a similar fashion (it's a long story!) and when acquiring that camera I traded-in the aforementioned M9-P as well as a brand-new and unsused factory refurbished M9.

Philip.

Edited December 26, 2024 by pippy

[jaapv]

13 minutes ago, pippy said:

Such a camera will only be be sold in 'As Seen' condition and the possibility of cover-glass corrosion will not be covered under warranty. At least one dealer will not handle an M9 under any conditions.

Which is basically very strange, as the factory will disclose the sensor fitted to each individual camera. 

[jaapv]

On 12/21/2024 at 10:45 AM, Topsy said:

Thanks, since I took that shot that particular M9 has developed a shutter issue, when it is cold (5 degrees or lower) the shutter struggles to re-cock, it sounds like an old film camera motordrive tryint to re-cock and often doesn't manage to in which case I need to remove the battery and re-insert it, that usually fixes it. It works fine in the warmer weather so I just use it then.

I have replaced it with this;

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

That is a known issue - the control mechanism has become sticky. it is usualy a simple and not too expensive repair. 

[pippy]

26 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Which is basically very strange, as the factory will disclose the sensor fitted to each individual camera. 

From talking to the manager it was simply a matter of personal policy; he considered the electronics in the cameras might be getting a bit long-in-the-tooth and decided to deal solely with more recent models. His shop; His rules. Sounds fair enough!

25 minutes ago, Quarterpounder said:

That is what I meant. If a dealer says "We don't know whether the sensor has been changed", they for sure know that they do not have any (positive) evidence. I avoid people like that like hell. When I bought my 246 at Leica in Wetzlar, they knew all about the camera.

I'm absolutely certain that trusted dealerships can tell whether any particular camera they have in stock has which version of the sensor; it's hardly rocket-science......😸......

As such there should be no difficulties when cameras are held in-store. I could imagine, however, that the situation could be different where one is dealing with a chain of shops and stock can move from one branch to another. Under these circumstances the situation with each body might not be immediately known by all salespersons in all branches. Of course I don't know that this situation does exist but I can imagine that it might.

Philip.

Edited December 26, 2024 by pippy

[jaapv]

4 minutes ago, pippy said:

29 minutes ago, jaapv said:

 

From talking to the manager it was simply a matter of personal policy; he considered the electronics in the cameras might be getting a bit long-in-the-tooth and decided to deal solely with more recent models. His shop; His rules. Sounds fair enough!

Fair enough indeed - I commented on the suggestion that it was sensor corrosion alone.

[petard]

9 hours ago, Quarterpounder said:

As someone else said - if you are looking for an investment, go for diamonds, or Bitcoin, or pork belly futures. Pension funds from all over the worlds base their investment strategies on them, as their prices can only go up.

There is mass-produced camera gear that stood the test of time, think Summicrons / minilux / CM or even a Konica Hexar. Still not an investment though, imagine you took the money paid for a Summicron in 70s/80s and put it into the stock market or pork belly futures.

Edited December 26, 2024 by petard

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb pippy:

I'm absolutely certain that trusted dealerships can tell whether any particular camera they have in stock has which version of the sensor; it's hardly rocket-science......😸......

When it was replaced by Leica, it can be determined the way described here earlier:

I would trust this more than what a dealer tells.

[pippy]

8 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

When it was replaced by Leica, it can be determined the way described here earlier:

Yes; I know. I went through the whole experience myself with an M9-P which had the v1 sensor/cover-glass problem before the v2 had been perfected.

Philip.

[pedaes]

2 hours ago, pippy said:

v1 sensor/cover-glass problem before the v2 had been perfected.

I was lucky (for once) in that Leica were into the V2 Sensors when mine went in, not for corrosion but for a cracked cover glass.

It would be interesting to know the numbers for V1 &V2 cameras but I guess we never will.

I was talking to one of the Harrods store guys in the Leica 'shop' at Goodwood and he was saying M9's were in demand because of the ccd sensor. How factual a statement I know not.

Edited December 27, 2024 by pedaes

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pippy]

1 hour ago, pedaes said:

I was lucky (for once) in that Leica were into the V2 Sensors when mine went in, not for corrosion but for a cracked cover glass.

It would be interesting to know the numbers for V1 &V2 cameras but I guess we never will...

My M9-P had already had the original sensor replaced by the time I bought it in 2014(?) but by that time the v2 wasn't available and the 'new' sensor cover-glass (a v1 obviously) also corroded. I took it back to Red Dot (from whom the body was purchased) and they were happy to send it away for the v2 when the replacement scheme was initiated. Unfortunately it transpired that this v2 sensor had a line of dead pixels so back to Wetzlar it went. Crazy situation - four sensors in total - but once it was fixed for good the camera never once let me down and was a superb tool.

As far as the v1 / v2 production is concerned? All M9 cameras were made prior to the development of the v2. The M240 was introduced in September 2012; the v2 sensor unit wasn't available until (if my memory serves) circa July 2015 therefore all original M9 cameras have the potential for cover-glass corrosion to appear.

Things aren't as straightforward as that though. As I recall there was quite a lot of evidence which pointed to certain sensors being more likely to fail due to their individual positioning in the area where they were being manufactured. But that's another - and quite long - story...

Something to look out for - should anyone be looking for an M9 - would be those M9 cameras which were sent back to Wetzlar by owners who wished to accept Leica's offer of trading-up to the newer model. These M9s were completely factory refurbished with new parts where neccessary and all receivde the v2 sensor. For a while it was possible to purchase one of these as part of the 'À la Carte' programme with a choice of finishes / coverings.  My M Monochrom was one such camera hence the Silver-Chrome body, Boysenberry Red Leather and Top-Plate engravings.

Philip.

Edited December 27, 2024 by pippy

[pedaes]

21 minutes ago, pippy said:

circa July 2015

That would be about right as mine was October 2016. I didn't know (or had more likely forgotten) the V1 replacement sensor was used in  production cameras, and not just as a replacement. I know a few had V1 replaced by V2 as a second attempt.  A good job the cameras hardware shows what sensor it has! 

A shot with a cracked cover glass

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!