Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 "Rigid" Announcement

[Einst_Stein]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

33 minutes ago, aficionados said:

3 days ago I negotiated down this new rigid black brassing version for $520, and to be delivered at the beginning of Feb. 

sounds like 30 years ago to you?

knock off lenses have no value in second hand market in China. Therefore the brand new is heavily discounted there too.

 

You are better than Zelenski. Excellent bargain skill!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Sebastian S]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb _tc:

sure agree with that 75 lux comment.

While I agree an original rigid/DR are both pretty reasonably priced even for decent shape lenses, a brass bodied lens with .7m MFD and no "interesting" service history was a winning enough proposition for me to preorder one.

I've used the DR on an M11 and it's one of the few cases where IMO vintage lenses actually live up to their hype. Very clean files stopped down a bit, as good as a v5 though I probably prefer the v5 rendering. The DR haptically is, charitably, challenged. Frankly, so is the rigid with the non-tab inlay infinity lock but again .7m makes up for it to me.

I have the DR which focuses down to 0.5, still i would love a version that focuses natively to 0.7. But i would never never ever wanted to change it to a chinese copy, even if i would need to invest the buying price again for a cla and recoating or whatever.

( Why? I know this forum is not the place for political debattes, but people need to think a little bit more far then just how to save a few bucks - we kill traditional brands in europe and america by making copy fabrics strong with much lower standards in everything, And by killing the original brands you kill the economic locations of their origin. That's what's happening since the 80s and people cry and rage about the downfall of economy, point with fingers at minorities, yet still installing temu and alibaba apps on their phones for the lowest prives possible and still participating in the shift of capital to a state that's still under totalitarian dictatorship. if enough are asking for a remake of the rigid, then leica maybe even considers a re-edition. and if you love the brand and want it to stick around a while longer, then you save for their version instead of a chinese knock off. )
 

[Vanillasludge]

1 hour ago, Sebastian S said:

I have the DR which focuses down to 0.5, still i would love a version that focuses natively to 0.7. But i would never never ever wanted to change it to a chinese copy, even if i would need to invest the buying price again for a cla and recoating or whatever.

( Why? I know this forum is not the place for political debattes, but people need to think a little bit more far then just how to save a few bucks - we kill traditional brands in europe and america by making copy fabrics strong with much lower standards in everything, And by killing the original brands you kill the economic locations of their origin. That's what's happening since the 80s and people cry and rage about the downfall of economy, point with fingers at minorities, yet still installing temu and alibaba apps on their phones for the lowest prives possible and still participating in the shift of capital to a state that's still under totalitarian dictatorship. if enough are asking for a remake of the rigid, then leica maybe even considers a re-edition. and if you love the brand and want it to stick around a while longer, then you save for their version instead of a chinese knock off. )
 

Spot on. If you value more than just the ownership of a Leica Shaped Object you should stick to originals or companies that focus in creating new, original things, not just nostalgia plays.  
 

(This is not to mention supporting worker protections, fair trade and social justice. ) 

[raizans]

Wouldn’t it be nice if the Mont Pelerin Society never formed?

Leica and LLL aren’t competing for anyone’s dollars, they’re at completely different price points and niche markets.

[Sebastian S]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb _tc:

I'm going to give you a one time pass because I don't post here much, but I own every current production Leica 50mm lens. I own an M11. Leica is not hurting for my money. Ironically there is probably some light overlap in our opinions about fast fashion and the exploitation of labor but your version of that appears to have all of the sophistication of a Marvel film.

sorry, my idealistic outburst wasn't towards you, more of an general rant -> old man yells at cloud.

I also truely believe that the SR reissue only came to life because of the achievments of the competitors selling leicas old designs. so maybe that's a good thing? but at the same time also surely the reason leica the SR is not to perfection, as competetive prices had to be achieved with unfair competition  conditions

[TomB_tx]

I think it's time for the moderators to moderate...

[andybarton]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The individual has been banned before (with a different user name) for abusive behaviour. This account has been dealt with in the same way. 

Thanks for the heads-up guys. 

[TomB_tx]

I already have two Leitz Summicron ver 2 (rigid), and didn't need another, but got irked and pre-ordered the LLL for comparison. Recently got their 35 8-element to compare to my original, and was really impressed by the LLL. As a photographer from the 1960s the lenses feel perfect, and using them is a joy. Reminds me I don't need the modern lens designs.

[andybarton]

1 hour ago, TomB_tx said:

I think it's time for the moderators to moderate...

Just a reminder that if you see something that you want to bring to a Moderator’s attention, it’s important to use the “Report” function, via the three dots on each post. 

Despite appearances, Moderators don’t spend 24 hours a day here, reading every single post. That’s what purgatory is for. 

We greatly appreciate reported posts by members. 

Thanks. 

[GFW2-SCUSA]

Thank you, Andy.  One of the things I like very much about this forum is there is very little grumpy behaviour here. For the large part I see respect and a genuine desire to offer helpful remarks. Of course opinions differ, but it is done in a respectful way usually. I would be sad to see this change, so thanks for policing us when we get wayward. 

[pippy]

2 hours ago, aficionados said:

...You ask for $1000 for a rigid copy which a genuine Leica one can be found for less than $800...

Perhaps there has been an update which I've not seen but in the OP the price listed for the LLL 'Rigid' is $799.

Here in the UK any genuine Leitz V2 available for such a small amount of money will either have lens elements which are scratched, suffer from haze, separation or have fungus-issues. Possibly even all four problems if one is really unlucky......😸......

With the LLL one will receive a Mint-in-Box example with perfect optics. Not only that; for an extra $50 there is the 'Black-Paint' option. Would anyone like to have a guess at the asking-price for a genuine B-P 'Rigid' in any condition?

There is even a version of the LLL in development which will be made in LTM-mount.

Looking forward to the updates as and when these lenses start to appear.

Philip.

[t00l1024]

I regret creating this thread. 😔

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

With the LLL one will receive a Mint-in-Box example with perfect optics.

This is a lens I thought Leica would 're-do', but if they ever did it would be x4 or x5 the LLL price.

How do we obtain in UK - direct order?

[NigelG]

3 hours ago, t00l1024 said:

I regret creating this thread. 😔

I hadn’t seen updates re this lens despite having bought previous LLL lenses so I was glad you posted. 
I know the original “rigid” is a ‘hallowed ground’ lens but I’ve always been put off by wear/age/haze/fungus/coatings etc as @pippy points out….so a ‘new’ version/replica that is designed to perform as per the original would be interesting imho.

[pippy]

3 hours ago, pedaes said:

...How do we obtain in UK - direct order?...

As far as I know there is (still) no official dealer here in the UK.

One London dealership, however, has had a small number of their products advertised over the last few years. All of these have seemed (from what could be seen both 'in person' and in their adverts) to be in near-mint condition so it might be that one of the LLL 'Early Adopters / Testers' has contacts with the place?

As it happens I bought one of the lenses I saw. A 35mm f2.0 '8-Element' in Black-Paint finish complete with all packaging as well as the beautifully re-worked IROOA hood; also in full Black-Paint finish (unlike the genuine article which has a black 'trumpet' but a silver-chrome clip-band). Both lens and hood were in such good condition that the lens could hardly have been used (the B-P finish 'Brasses-Up' quite readily if one is not careful) and the hood looked like it had never even been taken out of the box / unwrapped.

So highly impressed was (& is) the '8-E' that I was considering picking up one of their 'ELCAN' lenses and got in touch with the company. They sent me to a link where any one of their lenses could be ordered. Having asked about prospective issues with import duties / taxes (etc) I was assured that the price quoted would be the final price as delivered. Any subsequent charges would be refunded in full but they said that such a situation had never arisen. Perhaps they have that side of things covered already?

As things turned out I didn't follow up my plan so can't comment on the final situation from a position of knowledge but they certainly came across as being fully confident in their ability to ship to the UK at the advertised price.

Philip.

Edited January 5 by pippy

[pippy]

3 hours ago, t00l1024 said:

I regret creating this thread. 😔

I for one am thoroughly glad that you started it!

Philip.

[Smudgerer]

9 hours ago, pippy said:

As far as I know there is (still) no official dealer here in the UK.

One London dealership, however, has had a small number of their products advertised over the last few years. All of these have seemed (from what could be seen both 'in person' and in their adverts) to be in near-mint condition so it might be that one of the LLL 'Early Adopters / Testers' has contacts with the place?

As it happens I bought one of the lenses I saw. A 35mm f2.0 '8-Element' in Black-Paint finish complete with all packaging as well as the beautifully re-worked IROOA hood; also in full Black-Paint finish (unlike the genuine article which has a black 'trumpet' but a silver-chrome clip-band). Both lens and hood were in such good condition that the lens could hardly have been used (the B-P finish 'Brasses-Up' quite readily if one is not careful) and the hood looked like it had never even been taken out of the box / unwrapped.

So highly impressed was (& is) the '8-E' that I was considering picking up one of their 'ELCAN' lenses and got in touch with the company. They sent me to a link where any one of their lenses could be ordered. Having asked about prospective issues with import duties / taxes (etc) I was assured that the price quoted would be the final price as delivered. Any subsequent charges would be refunded in full but they said that such a situation had never arisen. Perhaps they have that side of things covered already?

As things turned out I didn't follow up my plan so can't comment on the final situation from a position of knowledge but they certainly came across as being fully confident in their ability to ship to the UK at the advertised price.

Philip.

Hello Pippy, a good summing up of what I too think of LLL lenses. I carefully stepped into this pool with a purchase of a silver LLL 8e collapsible a couple of years back now when searching for a lens to "match" and work with a silver M2, it was,is, perfect and proved so much better than playing roulette in trying to find an old but good used Leica option. Next I bought the ELCAN because although I rarely use a 50mm I wanted one that was compact, no VF blockage, this lens too worked extremely well for me and I highly recommend that lens to you, so when the 50mm "Rigid" came on the scene recently I ordered that too, ( for use mainly with my black paint M2, but who knows what else ), and I look forward to receiving it sometime next month. My experience with LLL products so far is nothing but a good one, they are very well made and their performance is everything I would wish for...........Pricing too is comfortably agreeable.

Additional........

I also completely agree with you when you say this:

Here in the UK any genuine Leitz V2 available for such a small amount of money will either have lens elements which are scratched, suffer from haze, separation or have fungus-issues. Possibly even all four problems if one is really unlucky......😸......

With the LLL one will receive a Mint-in-Box example with perfect optics. Not only that; for an extra $50 there is the 'Black-Paint' option. Would anyone like to have a guess at the asking-price for a genuine B-P 'Rigid' in any condition?

With the quality that I have found so far with the LLL lenses why would I play the used lens market for a lens that old? The old lens "character" BS doesn't fly with me. The LLL comes with a guarentee too, try to find such that would work well on the 'Bay or wherever else for the price.

And yes of course I ordered the Black Paint LLL V2!

 

 

Edited January 5 by Smudgerer

[Kl@usW.]

Am 15.12.2024 um 05:56 schrieb aficionados:

Japan is never a good place to buy anything, except rice cooker, unless the JPY dips below 200 to USD.

Not my experience. I visited Japan as a German tourist without any knowledge of Japanese in the summer of ’24 and reserved two days for shopping in Tokyo. It was wonderful: a huge selection, knowledgeable salespeople, and reasonable prices. I bought several Nikon lenses, a half-case for my Barnack, and a Voigtländer VC2. Affordable and in excellent condition. You just need to know what you're looking for.

A Rolleiflex F Xenotar in mint condition, though, I’d probably look for in Europe… although the quality you see in Japan is certainly remarkable. These positive experiences weren’t limited to photography; I actually found them throughout the entire service sector. I can only recommend Japan for shopping.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[TomB_tx]

On 1/4/2025 at 12:49 PM, TomB_tx said:

I already have two Leitz Summicron ver 2 (rigid), and didn't need another, but got irked and pre-ordered the LLL for comparison. Recently got their 35 8-element to compare to my original, and was really impressed by the LLL. As a photographer from the 1960s the lenses feel perfect, and using them is a joy. Reminds me I don't need the modern lens designs.

OK, my pre-order LLL Rigid arrived this afternoon. Very nice presentation & packaging, nice padded leather case that is too large to carry in my kit. Appearance, fit and finish do look equal to my 2 1960s Leitz Rigid 50s, focus is smooth and light, apertures are precise half-stops (nice improvement), Focus throw from Infinity to 1m matches the old Rigids, but rotation continues a ways on the new lens to reach 0.7m. I don't see any adverse effects of these improvements. Overall it seems a very well-done reproduction of the Leitz Rigid.

With just a few quick snapshots around the house (wet, foggy weather today) the images look nice, as with most of the 50 f2.0 lenses made since 1950. For me about any 50 lens will do, but I rank feel and handling more important for my enjoyment in using the lens. This one seems promising.

Without doing any precise focus calibration tests, this sample seems to have sharpest focus plane a bit behind the RF indication on my M10 & M9, which is not uncommon sample-to-sample. Switching back and forth with my old Leitz Rigids they hit focus consistently more often that this new lens. Could just be the cameras are at one end of their tolerance and the lens at the other end of its tolerance band. I'll just use it for a while on various film and digital Ms before judging it as "off". Then I may well send it to DAG to check and calibrate focus.

Looking close at the focus cams in my 2 '60s Leitz Rigids you can see that the lens cams have individually ground slopes in the area where they contact the camera follower. I remember the owner of the camera shop in the 1960s telling me that Leitz individually ground each lens cam to match the optics of that lens. The LLL rigid clearly doesn't do this.  

[Elliot Harper]

5 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

OK, my pre-order LLL Rigid arrived this afternoon. Very nice presentation & packaging, nice padded leather case that is too large to carry in my kit. Appearance, fit and finish do look equal to my 2 1960s Leitz Rigid 50s, focus is smooth and light, apertures are precise half-stops (nice improvement), Focus throw from Infinity to 1m matches the old Rigids, but rotation continues a ways on the new lens to reach 0.7m. I don't see any adverse effects of these improvements. Overall it seems a very well-done reproduction of the Leitz Rigid.

With just a few quick snapshots around the house (wet, foggy weather today) the images look nice, as with most of the 50 f2.0 lenses made since 1950. For me about any 50 lens will do, but I rank feel and handling more important for my enjoyment in using the lens. This one seems promising.

Without doing any precise focus calibration tests, this sample seems to have sharpest focus plane a bit behind the RF indication on my M10 & M9, which is not uncommon sample-to-sample. Switching back and forth with my old Leitz Rigids they hit focus consistently more often that this new lens. Could just be the cameras are at one end of their tolerance and the lens at the other end of its tolerance band. I'll just use it for a while on various film and digital Ms before judging it as "off". Then I may well send it to DAG to check and calibrate focus.

Looking close at the focus cams in my 2 '60s Leitz Rigids you can see that the lens cams have individually ground slopes in the area where they contact the camera follower. I remember the owner of the camera shop in the 1960s telling me that Leitz individually ground each lens cam to match the optics of that lens. The LLL rigid clearly doesn't do this.  

Funny you mentioned the back focus on M10 and M9, this is exactly my experience too. I have an army of LLL lenses: (35/8e in bare brass and stainless steel and collapsible, 50 SP-II, 50 Elcan). They all slightly back focus on my M10-R and M9. But they are dead accurate on my M11. I never know the reason why, but I guess maybe it's because of the rangefinder calibration? My other Leica lenses are fine on all my M's

Anyway I just don't bother and live with that.