SL3, SL2 & SL2-S: Firmware updates significantly expand the range of functions

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I hope the SL3 firmware has been fixed on this,

I got a few times firmware lens updates in the middle of shooting all day with the SL APO lenses.

I never had this issue. The first time I attached a lens it updated straight away. Never after shooting for a while.

2 hours ago, Jonathan Levin said:

My SL3 has latest firmware installed. The firmware for the lens is 3.0 for the 24-90. Is this the current FW?

Yes.

For Leica lenses on a Leica SL body the lens firmware is embedded in the body firmware. If a lens needs updating it will do so as soon as you attach it.

For non-Leica lenses or Leica lenses on a Panasonic body you use a separate firmware file.

Gordon

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[Carrot]

5 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I got a few times firmware lens updates in the middle of shooting all day with the SL APO lenses.

I had this once with the SL APO 50, weeks after updating it suddenly went into update mode while I was out shooting. The LCD went black and the camera was totally unresponsive, it took several pulls of the battery to get it all back. 

[SrMi]

The only reason for a lens update to run is that you have updated the camera without having the lens mounted after the update.

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

The only reason for a lens update to run is that you have updated the camera without having the lens mounted after the update.

yeah, all good when the firmware of the camera is not 💩

I had all my lenses updated after the camera update, but a few times, 3 lenses Summicron-SL APO started an update weeks later and in the middle of a shoot where the lens was in use for a few hundred shots in the studio already.

One failed to update and bricked, I had to send it to Germany for repair and $600 cost to me and months out for firmware repair.

So excuse my bitterness when I say the auto update has to change. And deliver better firmware.

[SrMi]

19 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

yeah, all good when the firmware of the camera is not 💩

I had all my lenses updated after the camera update, but a few times, 3 lenses Summicron-SL APO started an update weeks later and in the middle of a shoot where the lens was in use for a few hundred shots in the studio already.

One failed to update and bricked, I had to send it to Germany for repair and $600 cost to me and months out for firmware repair.

So excuse my bitterness when I say the auto update has to change. And deliver better firmware.

I only described what is the current design of lens updates.

I agree that the firmware update should not be triggered automatically, though doing so could cause a lens that did not receive the update to malfunction.

I have never had repeated updates being triggered. I would assume a hardware issue when that happens.

[Carrot]

10 hours ago, SrMi said:

The only reason for a lens update to run is that you have updated the camera without having the lens mounted after the update.

Yes I know that is what one might expect to be the case, and after every camera update I always attach each lens to allow any updates to take place. The reason I made the post though was to say that the update routine kicked in again many weeks later for no apparent reason, and resulted in the camera freezing for around half an hour.

[LocalHero1953]

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7 hours ago, Photoworks said:

yeah, all good when the firmware of the camera is not 💩

I had all my lenses updated after the camera update, but a few times, 3 lenses Summicron-SL APO started an update weeks later and in the middle of a shoot where the lens was in use for a few hundred shots in the studio already.

One failed to update and bricked, I had to send it to Germany for repair and $600 cost to me and months out for firmware repair.

So excuse my bitterness when I say the auto update has to change. And deliver better firmware.

My Apo-Summicron-SL 75 also bricked during a lens update (SL2-S, v3.1) and had to be repaired in Wetzlar but the cost was 'only' about £250. My bitterness was less the cost than that I was told it would take 5-7 weeks, but it actually took 7 months, with no explanations or feedback except when I chased them up.

In my case, the lens update started immediately after attaching the lens following the SL2-S firmware 3.1 update. I attached all my lenses one after the other. The 75 was the only one with the problem.

[helged]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

My Apo-Summicron-SL 75 also bricked during a lens update (SL2-S, v3.1) and had to be repaired in Wetzlar but the cost was 'only' about £250. My bitterness was less the cost than that I was told it would take 5-7 weeks, but it actually took 7 months, with no explanations or feedback except when I chased them up.

In my case, the lens update started immediately after attaching the lens following the SL2-S firmware 3.1 update. I attached all my lenses one after the other. The 75 was the only one with the problem.

Shouldn't happen at all. Would it be 'safer' to switch off the camera before mounting individual SL-Lenses, after a FW update? Wouldn't explain why the reported lens updates starts in the midst of shooting, weeks after FW update, though....

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, helged said:

Shouldn't happen at all. Would it be 'safer' to switch off the camera before mounting individual SL-Lenses, after a FW update? Wouldn't explain why the reported lens updates starts in the midst of shooting, weeks after FW update, though....

I should have been clear - I did switch off the camera before mounting the lenses.

[Genoweffa]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

magnification @ joystick seems natural for a thumb...so its good...but dear Leica, where do I assign AE-L while joystick magnifies ??? 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Genoweffa

[Genoweffa]

answered to myself (via other forum inputs)...

keep ae-l @ joystick, assign magnification to thumbwheel click/press

Edited December 17, 2024 by Genoweffa

[Buster72]

On 12/17/2024 at 8:39 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

My Apo-Summicron-SL 75 also bricked during a lens update (SL2-S, v3.1) and had to be repaired in Wetzlar but the cost was 'only' about £250. My bitterness was less the cost than that I was told it would take 5-7 weeks, but it actually took 7 months, with no explanations or feedback except when I chased them up.

In my case, the lens update started immediately after attaching the lens following the SL2-S firmware 3.1 update. I attached all my lenses one after the other. The 75 was the only one with the problem.

Exactly the same thing happened to me with the same lens, the same camera and same f/w. It had to go away to be repaired too. Very strange, never understood or told as to why.

[Tinbird]

On 12/12/2024 at 8:57 AM, BernardC said:

Don't try it 'till you've knocked it!

🤔🤣😉

[Tinbird]

Hi, folks.

Is there anywhere I can find a complete listing of ALL of the specific bug fixes and enhancements addressed with EACH firmware update (e.g. SL2 and Q2)? The Leica website contains only the most recent FW updates and Release Notes, and not any previous ones. Also, the FW Release Notes are often extremely brief, offering very little (if any) explanation of new features or functions. I'd love to find a single document (even if multi-page) that details all of the FW enhancements, in chronological order (i.e. in the order they were issued), from the first to the latest. I diligently keep my cameras updated, however, I do find it difficult (impossible, actually) to remember all of the improvements each of the various FW updates brings to a given camera body. I really wish Leica would simply integrate the improvements of each FW update directly into their downloadable (.pdf) Camera User Manuals, which could be updated concurrent with FW updates, to accurately and more completely reflect the added features and functionality of the camera. I confess: I'm one of those guys who still reads operating manuals, and refers back to them from time to time. Can anyone share their thoughts on this, or, better yet, share their own solution for remembering each new feature or fix introduced with each new camera FW update? Thanks, everyone!

[Bikie John]

4 hours ago, Tinbird said:

Hi, folks.

Is there anywhere I can find a complete listing of ALL of the specific bug fixes and enhancements addressed with EACH firmware update (e.g. SL2 and Q2)? The Leica website contains only the most recent FW updates and Release Notes, and not any previous ones. Also, the FW Release Notes are often extremely brief, offering very little (if any) explanation of new features or functions. I'd love to find a single document (even if multi-page) that details all of the FW enhancements, in chronological order (i.e. in the order they were issued), from the first to the latest. I diligently keep my cameras updated, however, I do find it difficult (impossible, actually) to remember all of the improvements each of the various FW updates brings to a given camera body. I really wish Leica would simply integrate the improvements of each FW update directly into their downloadable (.pdf) Camera User Manuals, which could be updated concurrent with FW updates, to accurately and more completely reflect the added features and functionality of the camera. I confess: I'm one of those guys who still reads operating manuals, and refers back to them from time to time. Can anyone share their thoughts on this, or, better yet, share their own solution for remembering each new feature or fix introduced with each new camera FW update? Thanks, everyone!

I feel the same. I sent a question about updates for the SL2-S to Leica support (in the UK) and their only response was to send me the PDFs of all the individual updates. I think this is quite a big problem for a few reasons:

 - as you say, the release notes are extremely terse. It would be useful to have a bit more explanation of what is changed and how.

 - a consolidated list would be useful

 - most important, IMO - after several generations of updates some of the camera behaviour has changed to the extent that the manual is misleading or actually wrong. Furthermore, the manual offers no clue as to which firmware level it refers. I wouldn't expect a completely reworked manual for every firmware change, but where things like button functions are different or new functions introduced it should definitely be available, even if only as a PDF. And the manual should state very clearly which firmware level it is for.

So I think we pretty much agree!

John

[BernardC]

4 hours ago, Tinbird said:

Is there anywhere I can find a complete listing of ALL of the specific bug fixes and enhancements addressed with EACH firmware update (e.g. SL2 and Q2)? The Leica website contains only the most recent FW updates and Release Notes, and not any previous ones. Also, the FW Release Notes are often extremely brief, offering very little (if any) explanation of new features or functions.

They go back two or three versions, but you won't see all release notes since 2015:

https://leica-camera.com/en-int/downloads?download_area_category=1171&download_area_subcategory=1127&field_media_document_topic=1074&field_media_document_language=984&page=0

Unfortunately, the kind of self-healing documentation that you want has never existed, in any industry. Your car's instructions don't mention the hundreds or thousands of changes made over it's commercial lifespan. The device that you are reading on is patched several times a week.

While I can see the interest in knowing every change ever made to a system, it's also somewhat futile. There's a fascinating thread in the historical forum where people have tried to document every variation of the Elmar 5cm (Leica's first interchangeable lens, if you ignore some earlier lenses that weren't technically interchangeable). There are dozens and dozens of variations within the first few years of production, and several dozens more over a 30-year production span.

I do agree with you that major UX changes should be documented in the manual. Those types of changes are relatively rare.

[helged]

6 hours ago, Bikie John said:

I feel the same. I sent a question about updates for the SL2-S to Leica support (in the UK) and their only response was to send me the PDFs of all the individual updates. I think this is quite a big problem for a few reasons:

 - as you say, the release notes are extremely terse. It would be useful to have a bit more explanation of what is changed and how.

 - a consolidated list would be useful

 - most important, IMO - after several generations of updates some of the camera behaviour has changed to the extent that the manual is misleading or actually wrong. Furthermore, the manual offers no clue as to which firmware level it refers. I wouldn't expect a completely reworked manual for every firmware change, but where things like button functions are different or new functions introduced it should definitely be available, even if only as a PDF. And the manual should state very clearly which firmware level it is for.

So I think we pretty much agree!

John

'Only' FW, but nevertheless: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2023/08/leica-firmware-master-list/

Edited December 22, 2024 by helged

[Homo Faber]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb helged:

'Only' FW, but nevertheless: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2023/08/leica-firmware-master-list/

Great, but needed to be updated, obviously.

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[Tinbird]

9 hours ago, Bikie John said:

I feel the same. I sent a question about updates for the SL2-S to Leica support (in the UK) and their only response was to send me the PDFs of all the individual updates. I think this is quite a big problem for a few reasons:

 - as you say, the release notes are extremely terse. It would be useful to have a bit more explanation of what is changed and how.

 - a consolidated list would be useful

 - most important, IMO - after several generations of updates some of the camera behaviour has changed to the extent that the manual is misleading or actually wrong. Furthermore, the manual offers no clue as to which firmware level it refers. I wouldn't expect a completely reworked manual for every firmware change, but where things like button functions are different or new functions introduced it should definitely be available, even if only as a PDF. And the manual should state very clearly which firmware level it is for.

So I think we pretty much agree!

John

Hi, John. Thanks so much for your reply. Yes, we definitely agree. I'm fully onboard with each and every one of the excellent points you make. Frankly, for the price and prestige that the Leica brand commands, I kinda do expect that Leica should update their camera manuals with each and every firmware update. It wouldn't actually be that onerous, since each update usually only introduces two or three changes or fixes, and many of these can be incorporated in Owner's Manuals by adding or editing literally one or two sentences of written text, per change item. These updated User Manuals that I'm proposing should be either included in the Firmware Update listings page on the Leica website (as the so-called "Release Notes" currently are), or, even better yet, just include the revised camera Owner's Manuals as a sidecar file in each firmware update. This kind of customer service innovation and elegance would really add to the distinctiveness of the Leica brand, in a much needed, non-technical way. At the very least, Leica should post a complete archive of all previous firmware updates, with a detailed and complete explanation of what changes are introduced with each individual firmware update, on the Firmware Update page of their website, so that users can reference (and download copies of) this data on-demand.

Douglas

[st4u]

Dear forum members,

To get back to the starting point. I have the SL2-S with the FW 5.2, lens FW 2.0

Can you now fully recommend the new FW 6.1 or should I stick with the current 5.2 one?

I only have a Summicron 35mm SL non APO and a variety of M lenses.
 

I apprecieate your answer and  Thank you with merry xmas!

Chris