MP or M7

[brickftl]

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I know this has been discussed before, but the ones I read were years ago.

My favorite camera and which I'll continue to shoot is the M11Monochrom. I'm just fine with fully manual, adjusting aperture or shutter speed as needed to deal with whatever exposure the meter is showing me. Of course, unlike (I think) shooting film, the M11M is forgiving for bad exposure because I tend to shoot to preserve highlights, and if I'm under exposed can easily lift shadows.

Shooting film is of course a different animal and I'm thinking maybe I should go for a M7. The only thing holding me back is fear (irrational?) that the electronics will go bad. I'm especially gun shy because I had a Q3 and M11P, both of which crapped out because of bad electronics.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever experienced or heard about the electronics in the M7 going bad. 

And I suppose if I have that fear I should just go with the MP and make darn sure that I'm not fudging exposure as I sometimes do with the M11M.

Thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

Oh and as a P.S.: I haven't shot film since the late 70's with a fully manual Canon AE1 and Tri-X, that is until just the last couple of weeks when I got a really nice Nikon F3 paired with a Voigt 40/2. I'm waiting to get scans back from my first few rolls. Of course it's a whole other question I'm asking myself, why am I not content to stick with the F3 even thought it's built like a tank and lacks the sex appeal of Leica.

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[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, brickftl said:

Shooting film is of course a different animal and I'm thinking maybe I should go for a M7. The only thing holding me back is fear (irrational?) that the electronics will go bad. I'm especially gun shy because I had a Q3 and M11P, both of which crapped out because of bad electronics.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever experienced or heard about the electronics in the M7 going bad.

It is possible for the electronics to fail, but right now Leica can still service the camera. How long this will continue is unclear. The M7 was discontinued over 6 years ago. The main M6-TTL meter circuit board became unavailable about 15 years after Leica stopped selling the camera, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if the M7 became unserviceable less than 10 years from now, and of course without the electronics it's not really functional. The other issue is that even now many independent technicians can't do much for the M7 and it has to be sent back to Leica, which can become expensive and take a long time. Have a look at this thread (which fortunately ends happily) and this comment from a a well-known UK technician.

[brickftl]

24 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

It is possible for the electronics to fail, but right now Leica can still service the camera. How long this will continue is unclear. The M7 was discontinued over 6 years ago. The main M6-TTL meter circuit board became unavailable about 15 years after Leica stopped selling the camera, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if the M7 became unserviceable less than 10 years from now, and of course without the electronics it's not really functional. The other issue is that even now many independent technicians can't do much for the M7 and it has to be sent back to Leica, which can become expensive and take a long time. Have a look at this thread (which fortunately ends happily) and this comment from a a well-known UK technician.

thanks very much. Looks like I'll be getting either the M6 Remake or MP.

[Crem]

51 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

It is possible for the electronics to fail, but right now Leica can still service the camera. How long this will continue is unclear. The M7 was discontinued over 6 years ago. The main M6-TTL meter circuit board became unavailable about 15 years after Leica stopped selling the camera, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if the M7 became unserviceable less than 10 years from now, and of course without the electronics it's not really functional. The other issue is that even now many independent technicians can't do much for the M7 and it has to be sent back to Leica, which can become expensive and take a long time. Have a look at this thread (which fortunately ends happily) and this comment from a a well-known UK technician.

Are you sure this is true? I swear I read on this forum somewhere that certain M7 parts aren't available. Maybe it was the meter board or the electronic shutter. I don’t claim verified knowledge on this so I hope you are right that the M7 can be serviced and parts are available. 

I ended up going with the MP even though I really wanted a M7. I have no regrets. One of my big decisions was long term parts availability since these are life long keepers for me. 

Edited December 2, 2024 by Crem

[ktmrider2]

I owned a Nikon F, F2, and F3 back when they were new and current models.  I have owned all of the M mount film cameras up to and including the M6TTL and recently purchased a new MP having used Leicas continuously since 1975.  I enjoy Leicas overwhelmingly for the rangefinder/viewfinder system and the advantages it has over SLR’s.  However, Nikon dominated professional photojournalism from 1959 with the introduction of the Nikon F until well into the 1990’s.  Nikon’s only serous rival was Canon, not Leica.

Seems to me that if you really want aperture priority it must be the M7 (or Minolta CLE which had it in the 1980’s).  If you are more concerned with reliability, than the MP, M6 or MA, only you can make that choice.  As far as I know, Leica does not release camera failure statistics.  As far as wanting a Leica over the Nikon F3, romance and Madison Avenue would be my guess.

If I do not pick up a Q3 or M11, my next Leica will be an M2 simply because the viewfinder is the best Leica ever made, IMHO!

Edited December 2, 2024 by ktmrider2

[costa43]

I also went through a similar thought process recently when deciding on my 2nd film M. I think if it is going to niggle you that there is a risk of electrics failing then give it a miss and go for the fully mechanical option. Aperture priority is not worth the angst in my opinion if something does go wrong that cannot be repaired.

Edited December 2, 2024 by costa43

[Anbaric]

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6 hours ago, Crem said:

Are you sure this is true? I swear I read on this forum somewhere that certain M7 parts aren't available. Maybe it was the meter board or the electronic shutter. I don’t claim verified knowledge on this so I hope you are right that the M7 can be serviced and parts are available. 

I ended up going with the MP even though I really wanted a M7. I have no regrets. One of my big decisions was long term parts availability since these are life long keepers for me. 

No, I'm just going on reports like the one in the thread linked above where a forum member lost metering and the electronic shutter speeds and had them fixed earlier this year, but I don't know what was actually replaced ( @blackandwhite may have a service report). Probably only Leica in Wetzlar know what can and cannot be done - local reps may not have accurate information, and independent repairers can't get the parts anyway. But even if it's fully fixable now, there is no guarantee this will be true in 5 or 10 years.

[Anbaric]

7 hours ago, brickftl said:

thanks very much. Looks like I'll be getting either the M6 Remake or MP.

For what it's worth, Amsterdam Camera Repair recently announced they have developed a replacement meter circuit board for the M6 Classic that will be made available to other repairers, so it will once again be a fully serviceable camera. The current cameras have some advantages, though, like the flare-resistant finders and brass tops.

[Mute-on]

FYI … I would go with MP (which I did around 20 years ago)

 

 

[WvE]

I would hold off buying an M7 or MP until you get your scans back and see if you like what you see. Try the F3 for a few months and decide then for an M7 or MP (I got the MP and I'm selling my M10-P).

[brickftl]

2 hours ago, WvE said:

I would hold off buying an M7 or MP until you get your scans back and see if you like what you see. Try the F3 for a few months and decide then for an M7 or MP (I got the MP and I'm selling my M10-P).

well, because I'm nothing if not impulsive, I already ordered the MP. Got a mint version, good price from Tim Lei. If I really don't connect with it, then I'll just sell it even if for a bit of a loss. But I don't expect that to be the case simply because I"m adept shooting with a rangefinder, and LOVE my M11M. 

Because I'm into the F3 and Voigt 40/2 (both of which are in fabulous condition) for a total of just under $800, for the time being I'll keep them as a backup. At some point down the road I may decide to sell them.

[brickftl]

10 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

 As far as wanting a Leica over the Nikon F3, romance and Madison Avenue would be my guess.

If I do not pick up a Q3 or M11, my next Leica will be an M2 simply because the viewfinder is the best Leica ever made, IMHO!

2 responses:

1. Yes romance and Madison Ave are certainly part of the equation. So too is size and ability to use my great M glass including 35 Cron APO

2. just my 2 cents but I recommend you stay far away from the Q3 and M11. I had a Q3 that bricked after 2 months. Leica replaced it and I promptly sold it for all I paid, and that was what pushed me into the M series - first with a M10 that I should have never sold. But I did and got the M11P. And after a few months - it bricked too. I got it repaired (needed a new electronic board from Germany) and again promptly sold it for not too much of a loss. Although thank the Leica Gods my beloved M11 Mono has had no problems, I will not get another M unless/until the M12P comes out and has a solid history of not crapping out. Because every now and then (infrequently at best) I'm in the mood to shoot color, I got a mint used Leica CL, and OMG what a revelation. It's image quality is brilliant (especially when paired with my M glass using a thin lightweight adapter) and I readily admit that I was wrong to poo poo crop sensors as being inferior to my vaunted full frame sensor cameras.

[ktmrider2]

Honestly, I am trying to avoid purchasing any more cameras.  My ex-wife (therapist) thinks I do it out of boredom and I think she is correct.  However, that does not make the addiction easier to live with.  The Q3 and M11 are just the current models that have my attention.  Objectively, I do not gain much at all as the Ricoh GR3 is a great street/compact travel camera (as you said APSC size sensor is great.  I used Fuji X series until recently) and a I have a Nikon Zf for digital full frame.  My problem is neither says Leica (and that is my problem).

I would argue that the only thing I get by going to a digital M is the size of the lenses.  I am amazed at how large the non zoom lenses are for the Nikon Zf.  Of course Leica lenses are really small but they do not do auto focus or image stabilization.  I greatly enjoy using my MP and I greatly enjoy using the high tech of the Nikon Zf.  Nikon’s 24-120 f4 is absolutely killing it and cheap at only $1200US.

I keep telling myself I DO NOT NEED a Q3 or M11.  Thanks for reminding me.

Edited December 2, 2024 by ktmrider2

[brickftl]

17 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I keep telling myself I DO NOT NEED a Q3 or M11.  Thanks for reminding me.

no you misunderstand. If they were reliable, absolutely you need them

Joking aside, if you can afford new camera gear of your choice (mine of course being Leica), then you should get it. I just turned 70, and the question has become, if not now then why not now, and when. I can afford the MP, absolutely love what I've read/seen is its superb quality and the fact that I can attach all my great M lenses, so I went for it.

That said, the Nikon F3 and Voigt 40/2 were so inexpensive and are too good to get rid of, so I'm hanging on to them for the time being.

If you need someone to tell you to exercise restraint on gear spending, I'm not that person!

[Fotoklaus]

Am 2.12.2024 um 23:36 schrieb ktmrider2:

Honestly, I am trying to avoid purchasing any more cameras.  My ex-wife (therapist) thinks I do it out of boredom and I think she is correct.  However, that does not make the addiction easier to live with.  The Q3 and M11 are just the current models that have my attention.  Objectively, I do not gain much at all as the Ricoh GR3 is a great street/compact travel camera (as you said APSC size sensor is great.  I used Fuji X series until recently) and a I have a Nikon Zf for digital full frame.  My problem is neither says Leica (and that is my problem).

I would argue that the only thing I get by going to a digital M is the size of the lenses.  I am amazed at how large the non zoom lenses are for the Nikon Zf.  Of course Leica lenses are really small but they do not do auto focus or image stabilization.  I greatly enjoy using my MP and I greatly enjoy using the high tech of the Nikon Zf.  Nikon’s 24-120 f4 is absolutely killing it and cheap at only $1200US.

I keep telling myself I DO NOT NEED a Q3 or M11.  Thanks for reminding me.

Well she's your ex- wife, so ... 😉 

[ktmrider2]

That is not helping!

[sometimesmaybe]

On 12/2/2024 at 12:11 PM, brickftl said:

Shooting film is of course a different animal and I'm thinking maybe I should go for a M7

if youre worried about losing your investment due to the electronics dying, have a look at the minolta CLE (it is way cheaper than an M7 and more compact). it has aperture priority and runs on 2 x LR44 batteries. i have one as a daily carry paired with the 40mm f2 (there is also a Leica version of that lens). the only downside is the lack of a 35mm frameline

[username]

On 12/13/2024 at 3:37 AM, sometimesmaybe said:

if youre worried about losing your investment due to the electronics dying, have a look at the minolta CLE

The last remaining CLE's are dying left and right as we speak, and are not repairable, so I reckon this isn't a good suggestion, sorry.

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Hallo,

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[TomB_tx]

12 minutes ago, username said:

The last remaining CLE's are dying left and right as we speak, and are not repairable, so I reckon this isn't a good suggestion, sorry.

Such stories don't bother me. Many warnings about M5, M7, CLE etc. having fatal flaws, but I just keep using and enjoying mine. Everything dies sometime, so enjoy it while you can.

[username]

@TomB_tx the OP is asking whether to go for an MP or M7, and my point was just that suggesting a CLE based on fears of electronics dying makes no sense, as the CLE's are dying just the same.