Why I love and hate the Leica M

[anonymoose]

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3 hours ago, kkm said:

How to make a picture with no buttons? 🙃

I don't remember which camera it was that I owned, but I accidentally turned on a setting where touching the screen focused on that area and took a picture. It was strange and I couldn't turn it off fast enough.

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[DadDadDaddyo]

9 minutes ago, anonymoose said:

I don't remember which camera it was that I owned, but I accidentally turned on a setting where touching the screen focused on that area and took a picture. It was strange and I couldn't turn it off fast enough.

Classic SLR form factor "Mirrorless Shot Acquisition via Nose Activation" (MSANA).

The viewfinder eyepiece where it should be for a right-eyed photographer: another reason why I love M-series bodies. 

And for a bonus, no nose shmutz accumulation on the rear screen!

Yaaay!

Edited December 20, 2024 by DadDadDaddyo
Typo, not caused by nose...

[kkm]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb otto.f:

a screen-button though.

 

vor 11 Stunden schrieb otto.f:

no buttons no screen,

😙

[lct]

On 12/20/2024 at 1:50 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

I don't know why anyone could get upset with a Leica with no buttons, or at least none of the buttons added by a digital M [...]

Besides the shutter release, i need 4 buttons on both my M11 and digital CL: Play, FN, Menu, Info. Replacing them with screen buttons would be enough to reject the M12 AFAIC. YMMV.

[setuporg]

47 minutes ago, lct said:

Besides the shutter release, i need 4 buttons on both my M11 and digital CL: Play, FN, Menu, Info. Replacing them with screen buttons would be enough to reject the M12 AFAIC. YMMV.

Coming back to M9 and M240 feels like a bonanza of useful buttons and lack of idiotic touchscreen.  Something got lost in translation to today.  Also love the M9 scroll wheel.

[F456]

Would it be fair to say that with an all-manual focus camera, whether the supremely fast-handling Leica with typically a 35 or 50mm lens or a film era SLR (Nikon FM2 being the nearest SLR equivalent I can think of to an M-Leica) a very good skill to develop is accurate guessing of focus distance without the camera to the eye?

I believe Alan Schaller has practised this to the point of familiarity and frequent success, even with f/1.4 lenses wide open. He doesn't only shoot with 24/1.4 but also at least a 50/1.4 as a second favourite lens. I have practised it with my Nikonos-V that I use in bad weather as we experience that a fair amount and it's a shame only to record what happens in fair conditions — I have to do it that way as there are no focusing aids at all on the camera apart from a distance scale on the front of the lens, with focus being operated by a twist-knob on one side of the lens. However the lens is only an f/2.5 and I seldom open it beyond f/4 or f/5.6 for the sake of more  acceptable results if I misjudge the distance.

Why I mention this is because to my mind the only design feature of the M cameras in this day and age that is seriously lacking is to do with the screens. If you have to look in a straight line at the subject with the camera to your eye it does rather give the game away in street / urban photography, whereas in a busy street such as in London's West End if I am looking down at a tilting screen nobody seems to notice or care less — result: more candid/authentic pictures and less fear of confrontation (it does sometimes happen even with the best charm and defusing skills possible). In the case of more relaxed shooting, of course the rangefinder should be best bet.

As a side note relevant to the above and on the subject of rear screens, this is why I personally prefer a tilting to an articulated screen; the articulated one sticking out beyond the side of the camera body can draw attention that you might be shooting some video; the tilt one is hidden behind the camera body and you just look as if you are going through some settings.

Edited December 21, 2024 by F456
minor typos

[pedaes]

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8 minutes ago, F456 said:

tilting screen

The heart of the M is the rangefinder. This is one of many good videos on YouTube to help you with focusing. 

 

[F456]

Hi Pedaes,

Thank you for your post. I have no problems with how to use the rangefinder. For many subjects it is far faster and more precise for me than what is on offer in a manual focus SLR (especially with wider and standard lenses); this is what I have found over more than 30 years.  My point is that other ways of focusing, especially these days on the streets, where people are more suspicious of being photographed in public (rise of the internet etc) are very useful because they avoid direct eyeballing of the 'target' and the risk of confrontation that sometimes arises from that.

I'm not anti-rangefinder focusing, but just saying  I don't always find it ideal these days for some of the uses that have traditionally been Leica M terrain.

[lct]

1 hour ago, F456 said:

[...] to my mind the only design feature of the M cameras in this day and age that is seriously lacking is to do with the screens. If you have to look in a straight line at the subject with the camera to your eye it does rather give the game away in street / urban photography, whereas in a busy street such as in London's West End if I am looking down at a tilting screen nobody seems to notice or care less [...]

A tilting screen would render M cameras too thick IMO. You may wish to try an SL3, or the Visoflex 2 which is tiltable at 45° and 90°.

Edited December 21, 2024 by lct

[NigelG]

27 minutes ago, pedaes said:

The heart of the M is the rangefinder. This is one of many good videos on YouTube to help you with focusing. 

 

I haven’t watched the video but my initial snark from the screenshot would be that he needs to level the camera ( and not squint his left eye shut) …whether that has any bearing on his focussing accuracy isn’t my business but he might get level frames (and could shoot sharper at lower speeds)

[evikne]

9 minutes ago, lct said:

A tilting screen would render M cameras too thick IMO. You may wish to try an SL3, or the M11's EVF2 which is tiltable at 45° and 90°.

A flip screen that could be turned all the way around and become invisible, and that didn't protrude from the back, would make everyone happy. And it would make the D-series redundant. But that's unlikely to be possible without making the camera thicker.

[Markey]

7 minutes ago, NigelG said:

I haven’t watched the video but my initial snark from the screenshot would be that he needs to level the camera ( and not squint his left eye shut) …whether that has any bearing on his focussing accuracy isn’t my business but he might get level frames (and could shoot sharper at lower speeds)

I always notice that when they show shots of people using an M.

Most close their left eye or worse block their left eye with the camera.

He might as well use an SLR.

[Altair]

On 12/20/2024 at 6:58 PM, anonymoose said:

Picking up the M11 to take random pictures of things is something I find myself doing frequently as well. I find myself wanting to use it in a way I absolutely don't with my Sony.

My new challenge is getting sharp pictures of my 1-year-old's eye as she moves all over the place. I think my hit-rate is sub-5% 🤣

5% using a Leica M on a moving subject is super human. Good for you

[anonymoose]

1 minute ago, Altair said:

5% using a Leica M on a moving subject is super human. Good for you

Then I'm probably overestimating by a factor of 10. Let's make that 0.5% 😅

[Altair]

Just now, anonymoose said:

Then I'm probably overestimating by a factor of 10. Let's make that 0.5% 😅

Now that sounds about right.

 

When you do get that one right pictures perfectly framed with the right focus its unlikely anything you have ever seen though

[Altair]

I mentioned a disclaimer at the start of this thread. And will mention it again, I am using this thread to document my new found love of Leica in general, and M in particular. My opinions and experiences are that of a newcomer, if you are not interested in the development of a newcomer to M then I encourage you to move on to more productive posts. These replies are supposed to be interesting and informative to other newcomers, to remind those more experienced of what makes M unique, and to gather feedback and answers for myself.

 

With that out of the way, I wanted to update the collective on where I am with the range finder. A few Milestones these past two days...

 

First off, I am now very comfortable with when and where to use a rangefinder. To me, the M11P with the 35 APO sans Visoflex 2 is just perfect, easy to focus using the rangefinder and the whole package is wonderfuly compact, perfect for street photography indeed! This is a use case where I would only use the rangefinder and I am now sufficiently good at it ( some more experience is needed for sure  but no frustration!)

 

While using the 0.95 Noctilux, the Visoflex 2 is mandatory. NO rangefinder as I only shoot wide open naturally.

 

Yesterday, the Leica store just bought my camera and lenses from had a second  gathering and sent me an invite. I made the trip and happy I did. Met quite a few interesting people and got new insight, which I will share here.

First off, I was surprised to see what people had with them, many had two bodies, mostly both Leica but some had a Leica and something else, one gentlemen even had NO Leica bodies but many M lenses, he used an X2D and a Sony. Surprised that a medium format sensor was paired with full frame lenses! I got a chance to talk with another gentleman who had an M11 and a M11 Monochrome, which was astonishing! I really was blown away by the Monochrome and was contemplating when I could justify one for myself ( this late ik the production cycle i will probably wait for the M12 Monochrome and just convert to B and W for now ) but what the combination of M11 and M11M do is just mind blowing. The M11 was paired with a Noctilux reissue and the results are magic in colour. The M11P was paired with an APO 35 and the results where what I would call high art. No camera creates more magic than the M11 with a Noct, and no camera creates high art so effortlessly than a M11M with an APO lens does ( the APO lens just adds that 3% more contrast that stuns!!) A very powerful combination indeed!

 

Another three discoveries where the 28 reissue, the 50 Summilux 2023 version, and the SL3.

 

The SL3 was not attractive to me from what I had read, but in person and with discussions with owners I saw the appeal, for me it was how much easier it was to focus Noctilux lenses, even the 0.95, makes the Visoflex seem crippled in comparison. Magic for the lazy photographer if you will. Really was happy with the ease of focus.

The 28 reissue was such a tempting little addition to the arsenal, the small size and inter3sting character make for two selling points that make it something to think about in the future.  Especially if you are out with only a 50 or 75 and want a second light lens.

The 50 Summilux 2023 was the biggest hit for me. I fell in love with this lens! I never thought i would ever consider another 50 as I just got the 0.95 but the balance of this lens is remarkable in every way, the images had just the right amount of all the attributes I love about all the lenses I was attracted to ( sharpness, beautiful bokeh, APOness, colours, character etc) it was also perfectly balanced in terms of size and weight. Fits the M11 better than any other lens for me, not too large or too small, just a gorgeous perfect lens. I was happy to find out I can focus this lens using the rangefinder with no issues unlike the Noctiluxes. Put down my name for one, this is a must for me and I highly recommend it as the first lens for anyone stepping into M.

 

The last discovery was the 75 1.25 Noctilux. This needs its own post. I will be back later to describe my impression and thoughts.

[Altair]

Regarding the 75 Noctilux....

One if the attendees at the event brought along a selection of his lenses, he was a collectors in addition to being a hobbyist, and it included both the 75 and three versions of the 50 Noctilux lenses. As an aside, I will say that I am astonished at how generous and kind Leica people are when you meet them. He kindly allowed me to use his 75 as I was curious.

 

Another glorious lens! I did not understand the purpose of this lens when I read about it and was disappointed by the aperture of 1.25 but in actual use it is a phenomenal lens and I would say a different beast than the 50 0.95. Yes they have the same purpose ( high on seperation and offer beutifull bokeh ) and limitations ( big heavy expensive ) but the way they do what they do is very different. The 0.95 had more character, while the 75 is a very modern lens, very APO like while maintaining the Noctilux magic sauce of separation, 3D pop, and gorgeous book with smooth transition. I don't have a favorite and love both my 0.95 and the 75 1.25 for different reasons.

 

The 75 makes allot of sense now, it is the perfect Leica portrait lens in my opinion. In the grand scheme of things, I never saw Leica in the long or very wide spectrum, I think of the M as the best way possible to capture life as we would see it, with no exaggerated focal lengths and maximum artistic impact, the 35 and 50 fit the bill for Leica in my mind to a T. That said, I could extend to 28 easily and now see the 75 as the Leica portrait solution, compared to traditional portrait focal lengths such as the 135 Plena for example.

 

These experiences with Leica are really changing my perspective on photography, I have not been this excited or energised for a very long time. I love my X2D but have to say, Leica is on another level entirely. I am now contemplating a rather drastic change in my photographic goals, and just might let my Z9, Plena, and 105 micro go in exchange for only Leica and Hassleblad moving forward. I will not own more than three systems, so the Nikon has to go if I am going to do the SL3 and 75 Noctilux. That would mean essentially giving up on Wildlife photography as neither Hassleblad nor Leica do that well. The money that would go to my planned Nikon 400mm 2.8 would cover the 75 nicely.

 

This is a big decision, and i won't be making it until the three month period is over. I might just be overwhelmed with these new discoveries. For now will continue to practice and look forward to the arrival of the 50 Summilux in 2 weeks.

 

End of fifth week diary

[pedaes]

10 hours ago, NigelG said:

I haven’t watched the video but my initial snark from the screenshot would be that he needs to level the camera ( and not squint his left eye shut) …whether that has any bearing on his focussing accuracy isn’t my business but he might get level frames (and could shoot sharper at lower speeds)

OK. Let me introduce you to David Farkas, owner of Leica Miami Store. If you look at his images on the Red Dot website (not the YouTube Channel) I think you will agree he has no problem holding a camera level!

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[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb Altair:

I will not own more than three systems, so the Nikon has to go if I am going to do the SL3 and 75 Noctilux.

I agree to both aspects. 75 Noctilux is a phantastic lens but on an M just not feels right (even less, when used without Visoflex). From what you have been writing so far, I was pretty sure that sooner or later you will succumb to temptation. If you don't mind being a second owner, you can save a lot of money, especially on the 75 Noct.

[NigelG]

58 minutes ago, pedaes said:

OK. Let me introduce you to David Farkas, owner of Leica Miami Store. If you look at his images on the Red Dot website (not the YouTube Channel) I think you will agree he has no problem holding a camera level!

I know the Leica Miami guys and have bought/sold with them  - it was a comment just re the opening screen shot (but he still shouldn’t be squinting that eye shut…defocus) 

I’d like to see his unedited film frames based on that opening title “slant” 😉

I have a consistent c.2deg droop if I’m not paying attention…

Edited December 22, 2024 by NigelG