Why I love and hate the Leica M

[Altair]

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36 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

It's so fascinating how different we all are. I love these cameras and can afford them but in some ways I'm ashamed to own them and the lenses as they are so expensive. To seek out even more expensive versions of exactly the same thing is anathema to me. I don't mean that as a criticism of anyone else simply my own POV.

There is an innate hoarding instinct in mankind, some of us have it more than others, I have no interest in collecting cameras for their own sake, nor would I have something so clearly a tool in a cabinet unused. I appreciate however that if you have excess cash you do not wish to give away it needs to be held as something. Taken to the extreme you have super wealthy individuals worth half a trillion $ who seem to do nothing positive but spend their time baiting the whole world on social media. What a very strange animal we are! I may have a collection of electronic instruments but at least they are regularly played!

TLDR version I love the cameras for their form and function, I hate that they are regarded as being super expensive items for those with more money than sense and hate when people recognise them and judge the camera and me in that way!

I do agree that collecting for yhe sake of collecting is a waste, but who are we to judge people for what they enjoy? There are many hobbies that are solely about collecting, stamps, comic books, watches etc. To each their own.

 

Regarding spending money on expensive things, that's all subjective. What expensive to you buy not be for the next guy and vise versa. What does matter is how much do you spend on yourself compared to your responsibilities and communities. I am a religious person, and my system of beliefs clearly states a formula for financial success that includes distributing your wealth between yourself, your family, community, and the poor and less fortunate. Regardless of which system of belief you belong to if any, I find that sharing wealth whatever it may be is a genuinely effective way of guaranteeing your own happiness and prosperity. Be kind to yourself and others is the gist of it.

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[Altair]

I am getting the 70th edition as its platinum, my favorite material. I also collect platinum wrist watches and jewlery so really excited about this acquisition. 

My only concern is the MA does not have a light meter, I have never used a camera without a built in light meter....

[Smudgerer]

I'm sure that someone out there will platinum plate a Weston Master 5 to help you with the MA meterless hurdle.

[pgk]

If I look back at my photographs it soon becomes apparent that my favourites (either taken professionally or for my own enjoyment) have been taken on a wide variety of lenses, some expensive but the majority not (one was shot on a 28/3.5 non-Ai Nikkor which had the prong snapped off, so cheap and abused). Liking a specific combination is fine but curtailing if you use it in a specific way - not necessarily a problem, but limits can become frustrating.

I have owned the Noctilux (f/1) but quickly found it not to my taste (although in film days it way used more due to lack of light than separation) and would not do so again. Any lens faster that f/1.4 sits in specialist territory to me - useful for very specific situations, but, much like fisheyes, not really of much mainstream use. I would add in any lens wider than 20mm being specialist too. Specialist lenses are hard, IMO, to use effectively as their characteristics can quickly overwhelm image content as their technical effect obscures the viwere's appreciation of their content. Such images rarely make for good long term viewing as their impact can easily fail. Exceptions can be brilliant if and when they are used effectively for a specific situation. But no specific items of equipment are inherently 'artistic' or able to provide exceptional imagery without their user's appreciation of their virtues and an ability to use them effectively on appropriate subject matter.

Photo gear is always problematic with some used for most of the time and some very rarely. The trick is to own as much as you need and no more. When someone figures out how to do this they can pm me the secret of it.

Edited December 24, 2024 by pgk

[Altair]

5 hours ago, pgk said:

If I look back at my photographs it soon becomes apparent that my favourites (either taken professionally or for my own enjoyment) have been taken on a wide variety of lenses, some expensive but the majority not (one was shot on a 28/3.5 non-Ai Nikkor which had the prong snapped off, so cheap and abused). Liking a specific combination is fine but curtailing if you use it in a specific way - not necessarily a problem, but limits can become frustrating.

I have owned the Noctilux (f/1) but quickly found it not to my taste (although in film days it way used more due to lack of light than separation) and would not do so again. Any lens faster that f/1.4 sits in specialist territory to me - useful for very specific situations, but, much like fisheyes, not really of much mainstream use. I would add in any lens wider than 20mm being specialist too. Specialist lenses are hard, IMO, to use effectively as their characteristics can quickly overwhelm image content as their technical effect obscures the viwere's appreciation of their content. Such images rarely make for good long term viewing as their impact can easily fail. Exceptions can be brilliant if and when they are used effectively for a specific situation. But no specific items of equipment are inherently 'artistic' or able to provide exceptional imagery without their user's appreciation of their virtues and an ability to use them effectively on appropriate subject matter.

Photo gear is always problematic with some used for most of the time and some very rarely. The trick is to own as much as you need and no more. When someone figures out how to do this they can pm me the secret of it.

That last paragraph rings very true.

 

Owning just what you need really is the only way to master your hear and focus on photography itself. I try to abide by that but recently have cut loose completely. I am trying to limit myself to 3 systems.

 

By the way, just heard today from a Leica store owner that the 2025 road map was released to retailers. SL3S confirmed for January. 30 megapoxels..silver body only initially. A new SL lens to be announced at the same time.

I was not told what the new lens is or who it is targeted to. But if it's a wildlife lens as I suspect and hope and the SL3S does have better AF tracking capabilities that would be the final nail in my Z9's coffin. 

Their are to be 2 more M11 editions in 2025, a Monochrome and P limited editions. Unclear if M12 is 26 or perhaps 27

[jpark114]

1 hour ago, Altair said:

By the way, just heard today from a Leica store owner that the 2025 road map was released to retailers. SL3S confirmed for January. 30 megapoxels..silver body only initially. A new SL lens to be announced at the same time.

That silver SL3S is going to be so pretty...

[LocalHero1953]

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1 hour ago, Altair said:

SL3S confirmed for January. 30 megapoxels.

That's good. We've been waiting too long for a good anticipation thread. Oooh, at least a couple of months since the Q3 43.

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, Altair said:

…

By the way, just heard today from a Leica store owner that the 2025 road map was released to retailers. SL3S confirmed for January. 30 megapoxels..silver body only initially. A new SL lens to be announced at the same time.

I was not told what the new lens is or who it is targeted to. But if it's a wildlife lens as I suspect and hope and the SL3S does have better AF tracking capabilities that would be the final nail in my Z9's coffin. 

Their are to be 2 more M11 editions in 2025, a Monochrome and P limited editions. Unclear if M12 is 26 or perhaps 27

Leica dealers do not get roadmaps. Your dealer was having a bit of fun with you.

[Altair]

5 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Leica dealers do not get roadmaps. Your dealer was having a bit of fun with you.

I don't know about dealers, this particular store owner is also the regional distributor and he manages workshops and event in his covered region. I do know he avails Leica products to other stores. 

Not to say what I mentioned is confirmed, just relaying what i heard though I don't see a reason he would be dishonest or pull my leg, especially considering my expenditure with him in a 3 month period.

I am pretty sure what was relayed is accurate, but only time will tell.

[Altair]

Speaking of roadmaps, attached is a picture of my cameras across the last 25 years. This is basically everything I have owned excluding a D850, X9, and my current X2D. Tremendous amount of memories with each one. I had realized today that these are my most enjoyed cameras, the SLRs and even the X2D don't quite have the same appeal even though the results are even better. Lens selection and ergonomics come to mind as the main reason. The Fuji and Leica SoFort win for the fun factor. I have no doubt, now that Hasselblad has started releasing their E series of lenses, they will eventually catch up to the greats.

 

 

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[Altair]

I got this very old Leica about 15 years ago. I could not justify buying a new one as I was heavily investing any income I had, and got this when it was offered to be for about 300 dollars equivalent. I figured i would get it fixed and use it but I remember the cost was prohibitive at the time so used it as a paper weight up to now.

It came to mind as I was ordering new film to be used with the MA 70th, is it worth sensing in for servicing today? The lens is scratched up, a Summicron. Surprisingly the lens focusing mechanism is as smooth as silk to rhis day.

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[Altair]

I was just doing a comparison between the X2D with 55V lens and the M with 0.95 and the Z9 with Plena to determine how each could perform with their highest rated lenses in terms of bokeh and seperation.

 

I must say, the images with the Plena fared much better than I thought they would in a direct comparison head to head. In fact when we take into consideration focus accuracy the Nikon came out the clear winner. The Leica had the most attractive photos overall ( colours, transition, and seperation as determining factors in addition to bokeh) while the Hasselblad did just fine.

The X2D has beutifull colours straight out if camera and when to landscapes it is unmatched, but for portraits and documenting life it is rather mundane. 

I will take out the X2D and M11 with 55V and 35 APO respectively tomorrow to do some street photography tests. That should be an interesting comparison, I suspect in that regard both will come out with stunning results but different character to the photos. The Nikon is obviously too large and bulky for that.

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[Smogg]

8 minutes ago, Altair said:

I was just doing a comparison between the X2D with 55V lens and the M with 0.95 and the Z9 with Plena to determine how each could perform with their highest rated lenses in terms of bokeh and seperation.

 

I must say, the images with the Plena fared much better than I thought they would in a direct comparison head to head. In fact when we take into consideration focus accuracy the Nikon came out the clear winner. The Leica had the most attractive photos overall ( colours, transition, and seperation as determining factors in addition to bokeh) while the Hasselblad did just fine.

The X2D has beutifull colours straight out if camera and when to landscapes it is unmatched, but for portraits and documenting life it is rather mundane. 

I will take out the X2D and M11 with 55V and 35 APO respectively tomorrow to do some street photography tests. That should be an interesting comparison, I suspect in that regard both will come out with stunning results but different character to the photos. The Nikon is obviously too large and bulky for that.

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Quite an odd comparison, considering the very different focal lengths. Also, the 55V is not considered by anyone to be the best lens for the X2D in terms of bokeh quality, it is good as a reasonable compromise between size and quality. I must say that this whole comparison is basically meaningless due to the subjectivity of evaluating the quality of bokeh: for example, I find the bokeh of the Noctilux ugly because of its swirling, but some people like it.

[jaapv]

To my mind playing musical chairs with cameras and lenses is rather counterproductive for getting good photos.

 I tend to have a few camera and lens choices grouped  at home and will pick the most suitable combo for the purpose before I start. Mostly one camera with one or two lenses.
In my experience taking everything but the kitchen sink will only obscure the purpose and stop me from getting into shooting mode. “Testing” leads to meaningless shots. 

[anonymoose]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

To my mind playing musical chairs with cameras and lenses is rather counterproductive for getting good photos.

 I tend to have a few camera and lens choices grouped  at home and will pick the most suitable combo for the purpose before I start. Mostly one camera with one or two lenses.
In my experience taking everything but the kitchen sink will only obscure the purpose and stop me from getting into shooting mode. “Testing” leads to meaningless shots. 

It's fun to play with toys though!

[jaapv]

To me a camera is a tool, not a toy…or if you will a means to an end. 

[pippy]

On 12/25/2024 at 4:21 AM, Altair said:

I got this very old Leica about 15 years ago...for about 300 dollars equivalent. I figured i would get it fixed and use it but I remember the cost was prohibitive......is it worth sending in for servicing today?...

Stating the obvious that depends totally on what is wrong with it.

For reference here in London it is possible to buy a 'Buddha-Ear' M3 in 'Exc' condition from one of the most respected dealerships with a guarantee for £1,200. If one is prepared to accept a camera in 'Good User' the price drops below the £1k mark.

Do you know whether it is Double-Stroke or Single-Stroke? There has been talk (from what I've seen) that servicing the drive-train of the former could be problematical due to a lack of spare parts.

Cosmetically a new 'skin' can be had for little financial outlay. Here's a link to a company which I've used and would recommend;

http://aki-asahi.com/store/html/M3_buddha/index.php

Even if the camera is not financially viable as a repair at least as a paperweight it might look a bit better?

Philip.

Edited December 26, 2024 by pippy

[pgk]

23 hours ago, jaapv said:

To my mind playing musical chairs with cameras and lenses is rather counterproductive for getting good photos.

The problem with testing is that few testers ever have a requirements yardstick in order to ascertain if a camera meets needs/expectations rather than is marginally 'better' than another in certain nuanced aspects. I take many photos on other cameras when my Ms are entirely unsuitable for the subject matter and I do not worry about whether there might be any marginal improvement if I'd used an M if it was possible to do so. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jaapv]

Or preserve the history and only keep it in working order. 

[Altair]

On 12/26/2024 at 3:39 PM, pippy said:

Stating the obvious that depends totally on what is wrong with it.

For reference here in London it is possible to buy a 'Buddha-Ear' M3 in 'Exc' condition from one of the most respected dealerships with a guarantee for £1,200. If one is prepared to accept a camera in 'Good User' the price drops below the £1k mark.

Do you know whether it is Double-Stroke or Single-Stroke? There has been talk (from what I've seen) that servicing the drive-train of the former could be problematical due to a lack of spare parts.

Cosmetically a new 'skin' can be had for little financial outlay. Here's a link to a company which I've used and would recommend;

http://aki-asahi.com/store/html/M3_buddha/index.php

Even if the camera is not financially viable as a repair at least as a paperweight it might look a bit better?

Philip.

Thank you for the information and link. And I do apologize for taking so long to reply, was hit with a bad flu that took me out for a while.

I think I will do just that, clean it up and change the skin and use it as a paper weight in my home office. I would still like to transition away from my Nikon FM2 and get a Leica film camera. I don't shoot much film recently, about 5-10 rolls per year these last 8 or so years as I have adopted digital, but I am sure with the Leica lens collection I have now I would be also energized to experiment with my favorite film types again, not to mention buying a B&W film roll is somewhat cheaper than buying a dedicated Leica Monochrome camera. 

The 70th anniversary should be here in 2-3 weeks and I do have a Sekonic meter to use it, plus I suppose I can bring along my M11P and just copy the exposure settings, but ultimately that camera is a collectors item and will only be used sparingly and carefully when the mood strikes, I would like to get a dedicated film Leica that I can use with no reservations. I am between the M6 reissue, which is a rather steep investment, or the original TTL titanium M6. the latter is a more affordable option by about 2k and as a titanium Leica would add some visual diversity to my lineup as well as being a more durable finish, but do we know if an excellent condition Titan M6 from the early 2000s is as smooth and dependable as a 2023 M6 reissue? For those in the know, which would you choose? Greatly appreciate any and all advice.