New: Dallmeyer 50mm 1.9 M-mount

[BastianK]

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I was approached by the owner of this forum if I would be interested in having a look at a lens from a new manufacturer,
and those that already know me are probably aware I wouldn't say no to that.

This new lens is a 50mm 1.9 that will be sold under the "Dallmeyer" brand.
I received the lens yesterday, hence I did not get to use it a lot, but I will already tell you what I know and update this post
(of course also with sample pictures) when there is more to show.

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The lens is rangefinder coupled and the build quality does leave a nice first impression.
It has a square hood (and square is the truth here, not rectangular) and also comes with a small ring that can be attached instead of the hood.

I also got some marketing material:

I was told the lens is made in Germany, I don't know where or by whom though.
There is no "Made in ... " stamp on the lens.
Behind this project is Photo Vision s.r.o. from Czech, who to my knowledge also hold the name to "Kinoptik".

This is not a high performance lens in the sense that it features a retrofocus design with a lot of elements, it is more of a classic double gauss.

Apparently it will start shipping in February 2025.

These times of the year it gets dark before I get home from work, so it may take until the weekend before I have some first sample pictures to share with you guys.

Edited November 26, 2024 by BastianK

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[wda]

in my younger years, I remember owning a Dallmeyer lens for use with a  VP Exacta camera, giving me a fine performance. Its focal length was about 10.5 cm. In the 1940s, Dallmeyer made several lenses for screw mount Leica cameras. They had a good reputation.

Edited November 26, 2024 by wda

[UliWer]

I think using more or less famous brand names from the past for products which have nothing to do with the old objects gets a bit boring.

We have seen “Meyer Görlitz” - and they disappeared as quickly as they rose from some obscure realms. “Schacht Ulm” was announced and never realized, perhaps better so, etc. 

Now “Dallmeyer”…

Though in this case the people who seem to try making profit of the fame from times long ago should be careful. There is still is a “Dallmeier” company, which doesn’t produce lenses though it is active in optical technology: https://www.dallmeier.com/de/. Perhaps the “y” instead of an “i” isn’t sufficient. Almost hundred years ago a certain company which mainly produced microscopes wanted to name a new camera “Leca”. A french camera producer who already had a camera called “L’Eca” objected…. They also had problems to name a lens “Elmax” - as there was already an “Ermanox”. 

[Robert Blanko]

Interesting, never heard about the Dallmeyer brand for lenses and my first association was relating to delicatessen in Munich.

BTW, Meyer Görlitz still seems to be alive manufacturing and selling lenses (at least the brand is still used). Bought a Primoplan 75/1.9 some time ago.

[kkm]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb BastianK:

These times of the year it gets dark before I get home from work

No Christmas markets around you 😉

[pgk]

J H Dallmeyer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_Dallmeyer) originally worked for Ross before starting his own optical business. He controversially (Thomas Grubb of Dublin had already made some but not patented the design) patented the Rapid Rectiliner lens in 1865 and the design went on to become probably the 'standard' lens of the 91th century. Dallmeyer is also known for producing soft focus lenses which also caused controversy. There is some lineage here: https://deltalenses.com/the-dallmeyer-story/. I'm not sure that a double gauss design would have any real claim to be a typical Dallmeyer type of lens but I will ask someone who may be able to shed more light on the topic.

[Ecar]

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4 hours ago, BastianK said:

Behind this project is Photo Vision s.r.o. from Czech, who to my knowledge also hold the name to "Kinoptik".

You may want to dig further and find out that it's owned by Vitaliy Kostenko, a well-known dealer of used camera gear. He sells through at least a couple of sites on eBay. Generally trustworthy and reliable in this capacity. No idea about his lens production skills. Probably subcontracted to a third party. A competitor to LLL I guess, except in this case they may truly own the brand names.

[Erato]

It appears that the contemporary Dallmeyer lens is another Double Gauss variant, similar to the original Super-Six. While there are several Double Gauss variants, this one features a unique set of 15 aperture blades. I’m curious to know if the M46(E46) filters are compatible with this lens. If possible, @BastianK could you please share the original website of this lens for further details?

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[Ecar]

17 hours ago, pgk said:

J H Dallmeyer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_Dallmeyer) originally worked for Ross before starting his own optical business. He controversially (Thomas Grubb of Dublin had already made some but not patented the design) patented the Rapid Rectiliner lens in 1865 and the design went on to become probably the 'standard' lens of the 91th century. Dallmeyer is also known for producing soft focus lenses which also caused controversy. There is some lineage here: https://deltalenses.com/the-dallmeyer-story/. I'm not sure that a double gauss design would have any real claim to be a typical Dallmeyer type of lens but I will ask someone who may be able to shed more light on the topic.

Thank you for the Delta link, Paul. First proper compilation of 20th-century Dallmeyer serials I have seen and very helpful. It turns out that some of the lenses I own are actually somewhat 'younger' than I thought.

[pgk]

1 hour ago, Ecar said:

Thank you for the Delta link, Paul. First proper compilation of 20th-century Dallmeyer serials I have seen and very helpful. It turns out that some of the lenses I own are actually somewhat 'younger' than I thought.

My researchs suggest that its quite difficult to pin down serial numbers and manufacture date for may early lens makers. TTH, Wray and Beck are poorly documented and require research with some variance between sources. Whilst some 'precise' documentation is privately held for some Grubb lens serial numbers, not all ledgers have survived. FWIW Grubb seemed to allocate a date to the point of completion of a lens, which makes good sense. Until that is that you realise that a different undocumented serial run appears to start from after the first run and perhaps older lenses were mounted and given later serial numbers, literally decades after they may have been ground! I have two similar Patent lenses in completely different brass mountings and potentially supplied by Grubb some ~30 years apart. All of which suggests to me that serial numbers and dates are not as precise as we might like even when they are carefully documented. Leica appear extremely well documented in comparison.

[pgk]

And also FWIW I quried a friend who works in optics and got this back:

"It seems like there's a bit of a free-for-all on the use of Dallmeyer or variants thereof.

If anyone owns the name it should be Qioptiq.

However there were no lenses being produced with the Dallmeyer name even in the late 1980's under Watshams or Avimo Optical Imaging, so I don't know what happened from a legal point of view, whether it lapsed, in effect ?"

So who knows why the Dallmeyer name is being used? That said I can't see anyone doing anything after ~40 years of disuse as the name probably means little to most people these days, except a few who have an interest in such minutiae.

[pippy]

Is there an explanation anywhere as to why two weights are mentioned? Are versions going to be released made from different metals / finishes?

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Philip.

[bubbachua]

Probably an alu/brass version… not knowing where the manufacturer is from, no website.. doesn’t inspire confidence.. any chance it’s a Chinese made lens rebadged in Germany 

[Likaleica]

14 hours ago, pippy said:

Is there an explanation anywhere as to why two weights are mentioned? Are versions going to be released made from different metals / finishes?

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Philip.

My copy weighs 260g.  I have been taking notes and will post my impressions as I go along.

[Likaleica]

I also received a copy of the Dallmeyer Super-Six f/1.9 2” 50mm M lens to use and discuss here in the forum.  Rather than starting a separate thread, which the moderators abhor, I will latch on to Phillip's thread.  

I did not receive any of the literature that Phillip received, just the lens, wrapped in bubble wrap inside a very battered cardboard box.  I wrote some of this before seeing his post, but I’ll keep it here for confirmation.

First, the basics.  The filter size is E43.  It has 15 aperture blades, which produces a very round aperture.  It was labelled as First Edition 082/250, so I guess it is a short production run.  All lettering and marking is engraved, not stamped.

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It has a rectangular, screw-on metal lens hood, probably aluminum.  The alignment dot is more orange than red.  It weighed 260 g on my kitchen scale.

It does not have electrical contacts, so your camera will not recognize it.  I manually set the camera to recognize it as part number 11826, which is the most recent non-apochromatic 50mm Summicron (f/2) Leica lens.

I had no idea of the optical formula, until I saw Phillip's post, other than there is no designation of apochromatic or aspherical.   

First impressions.  Solid, all metal with ribs etched into the metal for secure grip.  Aperture ring moves smoothly.  Has half stops from f/1.9 to f/5.6.  No half stops after that.  The detents are secure, unlike my Apo-Summicron-M, where the aperture ring is loose and easily shifts during use.  Smallest aperture is 16. The distances between the full stops are not even, but get progressively shorter.  I don't have any other lenses that do that; it makes it impractical to have half stops above f/5.6.

Focusing ring smooth but a little stiff in my example.  It does not have a focusing tab, like most Leica M lenses.  The focusing ring is the same texture as the aperture ring.  If your fingers are a little slippery, focusing is less precise, because of the stiffness.  It has a short throw, with about 100 degrees from infinity to the closest focus, 0.7m.

I'm not going to do any detailed, technical lens resolution and contrast evaluation, but so far, it seems that the lens has its best resolution and contrast at f/8 and f/11.  At f/16 some diffraction becomes evident.  Wider than f/8 the lens increasingly shows its character, which is manifest at f/1.9.  I have not used the reissued Leica 50mm f/1.2 M lens, but this lens wide open reminds me of images I have seen from the Leica lens wide open.  

This is definitely a lens with a special purpose, to be used when you want to soften a portrait or evoke nostalgia.  It’s not going to wow anybody with its MTF curves, which I haven’t seen, but I could probably sketch based on what I’ve seen so far.  It does have its share of chromatic aberration, which isn’t a bad thing if you use it creatively.  

I will be posting images over the next few days.  I am using it on a Leica M10-P and probably will also check on the M10 Monochrom.  I made several pictures with it this morning, but chose not to post them because it was very foggy here, which would have given the wrong impression of the lens' performance.  

Edited November 28, 2024 by Likaleica

[BastianK]

Everyone who has received one of these lenses is happily invited to share his findings in this thread of course.

[hjddd]

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this is my Dallmeyer super six 50 1.9 made by Chinese technician，full rangefinder alignment from 0.7m to infi

 

[Ecar]

3 hours ago, hjddd said:

this is my Dallmeyer super six 50 1.9 made by Chinese technician，full rangefinder alignment from 0.7m to infi

 

Nice one. Conversion of vintage one or new glass?

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[Likaleica]

It's Thanksgiving Day in the U.S., and as usual I spend the morning sprinting back and forth between our house and the grocery store, with a list in hand.

So I brought the lens and made an observation.  If you shoot this lens wide open and over expose one stop, your pictures will look very hip, as if you've been out shooting Portra 400 on an Olympus point and shoot.

f/1.9

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f/2.8

[hjddd]

11 hours ago, Ecar said:

不错。餐馆的老式玻璃还是新玻璃？

original glass with self-made focus part according to the LTM version

Edited November 29, 2024 by hjddd