Goodbye, M11!

[Wandering Photographer]

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On 11/24/2024 at 5:31 AM, jaapv said:

Why? If your camera works great, what sense does it make to buy another one?

Well if you have more than one lens and don’t want to switch lenses while wandering about the forest, one might carry two Leicas. As has been noticed by others, the resolution of the M10-R and M11 are not that different.

As a side question, I was reviewing the M11 specs and noticed it uses the SRBG Gamut. Why bother with a DNG image if all you get is an SRBG gamut? Nikon gives you the option of choosing the Adobe-RBG gamut with their raw files.

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[adan]

16 minutes ago, Wandering Photographer said:

As a side question, I was reviewing the M11 specs and noticed it uses the SRBG Gamut. Why bother with a DNG image if all you get is an SRBG gamut? Nikon gives you the option of choosing the Adobe-RBG gamut with their raw files.

.DNG images have no gamut, until processed outside the camera.

OOC .jpgs are assigned a gamut by the camera. But who in their right mind would buy a $9500 camera to shoot jpegs? It is like buying a Bösendorfer to play "Three Blind Mice." 🤪

[setuporg]

7 hours ago, hansvons said:

not on technology-idolising men and their empty GAS

Reporting as violating the Code of Conduct, poking at and shattering brittle egos.

[hansvons]

2 hours ago, Crem said:

I especially love that sensor at ISO 800.

Huh, heresy. How dare you! Base ISO is 100. 
(Guilty as charged. My SL2-S absolutely loves ISO 800 for everything.) 

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, Wandering Photographer said:

Well if you have more than one lens and don’t want to switch lenses while wandering about the forest, one might carry two Leicas. As has been noticed by others, the resolution of the M10-R and M11 are not that different.

As a side question, I was reviewing the M11 specs and noticed it uses the SRBG Gamut. Why bother with a DNG image if all you get is an SRBG gamut? Nikon gives you the option of choosing the Adobe-RBG gamut with their raw files.

If you want do have a camera per lens I would need more than a dozen M11 cameras. 

[Smudgerer]

13 hours ago, hansvons said:

Agreed. My SL2-S produces the richest raw stills I've encountered. However, its handling is not remotely as inviting as that of an M camera. So, Leica, make us an M11-S!

Nice, and again I agree having trialed a SL2-S earlier this year to try out, it's a lovely sensor. I didn't make the leap though mainly because of the size of the camera and it's lenses, ( my days of having camera assistants to port stuff are fading well in the rear view mirror ), and also I found if I did need to use such a camera I preferred my older Nikon D810 / 850's with their optical DSLR VF's rather than the, ( any ), EVF.

[IkarusJohn]

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12 hours ago, Wandering Photographer said:

Well if you have more than one lens and don’t want to switch lenses while wandering about the forest, one might carry two Leicas …

While wandering about in a forest with two M cameras, surely you’d need a photographer’s vest and full matching Leica accessories, tripod, Metz megablitz flash and a troop of camera club followers … 😀

[setuporg]

I must say that this thread exceeds my expectations on divergence!  We're into forestry with multiple M bodies now.  After I see Moana 2 with the kids tonight I hope to deliver on the promise to add Moana to it.

[nameBrandon]

6 hours ago, setuporg said:

I must say that this thread exceeds my expectations on divergence!  We're into forestry with multiple M bodies now.  After I see Moana 2 with the kids tonight I hope to deliver on the promise to add Moana to it.

Did they like it? How was it?!

[caloosajo]

6 hours ago, setuporg said:

I must say that this thread exceeds my expectations on divergence!  We're into forestry with multiple M bodies now.  After I see Moana 2 with the kids tonight I hope to deliver on the promise to add Moana to it.

I’m in too deep watching this thread! Resigned myself to lurking lest I disrupt the magical sequence of entropy unfolding. Moana 2 would be the most logical tangent…bring it home @setuporg!

[setuporg]

OK, the verdict is in: Moana 2 is the M11 of M(oana)s!

[setuporg]

19 hours ago, jaapv said:

If you want do have a camera per lens I would need more than a dozen M11 cameras. 

I have about a dozen Ms, all different though, so doable, in general.  Some will have to be film.

[Wandering Photographer]

22 hours ago, adan said:

.DNG images have no gamut, until processed outside the camera.

OOC .jpgs are assigned a gamut by the camera. But who in their right mind would buy a $9500 camera to shoot jpegs? It is like buying a Bösendorfer to play "Three Blind Mice." 🤪

I always start out with raw files, DNG with my Leicas and NEF with Nikons. I typically have Photoshop set to either the Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.

[adan]

5 hours ago, Wandering Photographer said:

I always start out with raw files, DNG with my Leicas and NEF with Nikons. I typically have Photoshop set to either the Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.

Exactly - you setting the color space (Adobe or Prophoto or sRGB or the other options) is what determines the gamut of an image.

So why did you say the "the M11 ....uses the SRGB Gamut."?

The M11 provides whatever gamut you choose when selecting your color space in post-processing. Until then, its gamut is "undefined."

[Velo-city]

On 12/2/2024 at 7:21 PM, adan said:

Exactly - you setting the color space (Adobe or Prophoto or sRGB or the other options) is what determines the gamut of an image.

So why did you say the "the M11 ....uses the SRGB Gamut."?

The M11 provides whatever gamut you choose when selecting your color space in post-processing. Until then, its gamut is "undefined."

I’d guess about 99.999% of the world’s population - including amateur and pro photographers - probably don’t really understand colour science and the full colour pipeline; colourspaces, gamuts, calibration etc they’re not exactly simple. The whole area is complicated and can become a huge rabbit hole and has never really been addressed that well by everyone involved. Camera manufacturers have it pretty easy as it’s a source, but displays, image processing software, operating systems - they’re all very messy and built on years of historic mess before them. Having to have different systems running concurrently but still look the same (like CRT displays and LCD displays) during technology leaps, made things even worse.

Things are much better now but still have a loooong way to go.

I mean no disrespect to anyone involved btw, just more an observation.  It’s actually amazing that people can see anything looking remotely correct. 

[Wandering Photographer]

On 12/1/2024 at 12:55 PM, IkarusJohn said:

While wandering about in a forest with two M cameras, surely you’d need a photographer’s vest and full matching Leica accessories, tripod, Metz megablitz flash and a troop of camera club followers … 😀

I usually hike alone and only occasionally take a tripod. But if you want to capture the forest sprites, you need a tripod and a long exposure and hike alone.

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[Wandering Photographer]

On 12/2/2024 at 2:21 PM, adan said:

Exactly - you setting the color space (Adobe or Prophoto or sRGB or the other options) is what determines the gamut of an image.

So why did you say the "the M11 ....uses the SRGB Gamut."?

The M11 provides whatever gamut you choose when selecting your color space in post-processing. Until then, its gamut is "undefined."

I was reading the specification for the M11 put out by Leica. I was surprised they stated the gamut was SRGB. I raised the question here because the initial poster was trashing the M11. I like both my M10-R and M11; however, the M11 has, with previous firmware versions, had a propensity to occasionally lock up. I am hoping the latest update fixes that.

[Wandering Photographer]

On 12/2/2024 at 2:21 PM, adan said:

Exactly - you setting the color space (Adobe or Prophoto or sRGB or the other options) is what determines the gamut of an image.

So why did you say the "the M11 ....uses the SRGB Gamut."?

The M11 provides whatever gamut you choose when selecting your color space in post-processing. Until then, its gamut is "undefined."

It would seem the camera’s sensor and analog to digital conversion technology would set the bounds on what the gamut could cover. 

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[Wandering Photographer]

On 12/1/2024 at 4:06 AM, jaapv said:

If you want do have a camera per lens I would need more than a dozen M11 cameras. 

Well two Leica M’s with smaller lenses still weighs less than a Nikon D6 with a 24-70 f/2.8 zoom lens. That is my criteria.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Wandering Photographer said:

I usually hike alone and only occasionally take a tripod. But if you want to capture the forest sprites, you need a tripod and a long exposure and hike alone.

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All true.  Irony wasted.