M11-D at 18mps

[Smudgerer]

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I don't post images often but here's one of the first snaps out of the M11-D I made after fumbling through the first basic set-up of the camera and I'm posting it to show what this camera does at 18mps. It's a straight out of the camera DNG file no tweaking, downloaded off the SD card to Apple Photos, ( which I use as a first "selection" programme before exporting any "picks" to LrC for PP ), converted to jpeg and posted here. The colours and late afternoon tones are perfect.

WB-daylight, Highlight Weighted exposure setting, with the 35 Summilux SR Re-Issue bolted on front.

I've made as a test a full borderless A2 print of this shot just to see how 18mps hold up, and there's no issue at all, I could easily go to A1 I am sure and will soon enough when I make an image that deserves that boost in print size. Now 18mps is what the M11-D is set on as my basic choice / set-up and I see no reason to click that higher to 36mps or the full 60mps.

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Edited October 29, 2024 by Smudgerer

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[hdmesa]

Beautiful light.

With the M11-D, using a lower resolution setting is more of a commitment than it is with the other M11s.

I shoot mine at the full 60mp. For storage management, I keep maybe one or two shots per outing.

 

[Smudgerer]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Beautiful light.

With the M11-D, using a lower resolution setting is more of a commitment than it is with the other M11s.

I shoot mine at the full 60mp. For storage management, I keep maybe one or two shots per outing.

 

Thank you.....and yes I guess you are right about the lower resolution setting being something of a commitment but I also dislike dealing with large files unnecessarily, ( my Mac's are all getting long in the tooth and to add the cost of replacing them to the cost of the M11-D just to better work with the larger files was / is a bit of a no-no right now ). Using the 18mps setting started out as more of an experiment just to see how it worked and it worked well enough for what I need to keep the camera set on the low mp setting, I can always bump it up if a certain shoot may work better with the higher resolutions, but for now I am pleasantly surprised with the 18mp output "look".

I'm going to run an A1 / 60cms x 90cms print of this shot tomorrow just to see how it does but judging from the A2 I think it will be just fine.

Yes, like you seem to I bin around 90% of what I shoot after doing a rough "selects" edit / purge, just keep what appears to work ok before doing any finish PP on the images.........

[marchyman]

9 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

It's a straight out of the camera DNG file no tweaking

<pedant mode>

DNGs must be processed -- tweaked -- to convert them to a viewable format.  They are tweaked by the camera for the embedded jpeg thumbnail and they are tweaked by your raw converter, in this case Apple photos.  You might get different viewable results for "straight out of the camera" DNGs if you use Lightroom or Capture One or Affinity Photo or whatever.  They all have default tweaks built it that attempt to get a good result without a need for user selected tweaks.

<end pedant mode and putting my soap box away>

Anyway, enjoy your camera at whatever resolution you shoot. 

[dkmoore]

Seems strange to purposefully handicap the camera. Highly encourage you to upgrade computing power and switch camera to full resolution. 

[Smudgerer]

1 hour ago, dkmoore said:

Seems strange to purposefully handicap the camera. Highly encourage you to upgrade computing power and switch camera to full resolution. 

Send me a cheque and I will be more than happy to oblige............

One of the things I do appreciate after the years with the M10-D was the M11-D's choice of resolution, there are slightly different looks with them and as I learn how and when to make the choices I like to match the "look" to what I want to say in an imaging. I am not really a fan of "clean" images.

It's like with using film, you choose the film's emulsion speed to match the look you want, with the M11-D you can now do that, sort of.

Edited October 29, 2024 by Smudgerer

[Smudgerer]

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54 minutes ago, marchyman said:

<pedant mode>

DNGs must be processed -- tweaked -- to convert them to a viewable format.  They are tweaked by the camera for the embedded jpeg thumbnail and they are tweaked by your raw converter, in this case Apple photos.  You might get different viewable results for "straight out of the camera" DNGs if you use Lightroom or Capture One or Affinity Photo or whatever.  They all have default tweaks built it that attempt to get a good result without a need for user selected tweaks.

<end pedant mode and putting my soap box away>

Anyway, enjoy your camera at whatever resolution you shoot. 

Thanks, I'm a bit of a Digital Luddite but I'm not that unfamiliar with the process.............Converted to jpeg just to post the image here, but of course to print or prep' it for printing via LrC in my case that will be done on the original DNG file.

[setuporg]

If I were to shoot at 18 MP, I'd just take my M9-P and get the vivid Kodak colors as well.

[dkmoore]

Fair enough on sending a check. 
 

But, is there really a difference in IQ or the look between the different resolutions?

I haven’t been able to see any difference at all. I haven’t found any reason to use the different resolutions at all outside of memory, which is a valid reason of course. 
 

Anyway, carry on and enjoy the wonderful camera. 

[Jon Warwick]

I use the 18mp DNG-S on my M11 (with a 50mm v5 Summicron) for close-up portraits that are printed to 20x16”.

I find the lower resolution DNG-S provides a gentler look, which I think has more to do with less apparent acutance, than the full 60mp file. Anyhow, for me, the DNG-S makes a better base file for me to process towards a softer, more “cinematic” look that I’m targeting for portraits.

For landscapes with 45” wide prints, i take a very different approach …..using the 60mp DNG, an APO Lanthar lens, on a RRS 3-series tripod! 

Edited October 29, 2024 by Jon Warwick

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, dkmoore said:

Fair enough on sending a check. 
 

But, is there really a difference in IQ or the look between the different resolutions?

I haven’t been able to see any difference at all. I haven’t found any reason to use the different resolutions at all outside of memory, which is a valid reason of course. 
 

Anyway, carry on and enjoy the wonderful camera. 

I think the word "look" is being used loosely here. There's no difference in the appearance of the images when zoomed out. If you zoom in to higher magnifications, the lower resolution file can appear less harsh. Same thing can be done to the 60mp files by downsizing them in Photoshop and not using the bicubic sharper option.

[maidenfan84]

Looks great to me! I know with my cameras, I intentionally dial down the MP count because I like a bit of grain/noise to my photos and I prefer not having the over sharpened look that is all the rage in 2024. Also get more room for more pics! Again, Fantastic lighting!

[Smudgerer]

10 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I think the word "look" is being used loosely here. There's no difference in the appearance of the images when zoomed out. If you zoom in to higher magnifications, the lower resolution file can appear less harsh. Same thing can be done to the 60mp files by downsizing them in Photoshop and not using the bicubic sharper option.

Well I'm a printer of the images I like, and sometimes I want to be able to print a snap large up to 60x90 cms, cropping it too most of the time so that's where you can begin to see the differences in the resolution choices, same as you can with faster or slower film stocks. I have no plausible justification for liking the 18mp choice at this time, maybe that will change, but it is nice to have the choices. 18mp on the M11 does have a gentle softer look, especially when combined with the 35 SR Re-Issue or older lenses that suit this setting to a T and it seems to work for my kind of imaging which maybe isn't strong on focus and resolution anyway, ( the 18mp is somewhat like the quality of the 24mp files I get from the M10-P which I like too )..........But yes I do get the usefulness of the 60mp resolution and yes in some circumstances I am sure I'll use it, but right now I am happy enough puttering around at the bottom of the scale.

Edited October 30, 2024 by Smudgerer

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Well I'm a printer of the images I like, and sometimes I want to be able to print a snap large up to 60x90 cms, cropping it too most of the time so that's where you can begin to see the differences in the resolution choices, same as you can with faster or slower film stocks. I have no plausible justification for liking the 18mp choice at this time, maybe that will change, but it is nice to have the choices. 18mp on the M11 does have a gentle softer look, especially when combined with the 35 SR Re-Issue or older lenses that suit this setting to a T and it seems to work for my kind of imaging which maybe isn't strong on focus and resolution anyway, ( the 18mp is somewhat like the quality of the 24mp files I get from the M10-P which I like too )..........But yes I do get the usefulness of the 60mp resolution and yes in some circumstances I am sure I'll use it, but right now I am happy enough puttering around at the bottom of the scale.

Well, if you see a difference when zoomed out viewing the entire image, I don’t see how. It’s literally a resized image just like you’d do in Photoshop. Several of us here and on FM tested this a while back. Leica is not doing some kind of pixel binning or other more sophisticated downsampling off the sensor, they are literally downsizing the image on the fly as it’s recorded just like you or I would do in PS.

If you’re seeing a difference when zoomed in on the 18mp images, then yes, I agree. (Although that look can be achieved by simply downsizing the 60mp images to 18mp in PS while using a resizing mode that doesn’t sharpen the image during the reduction.)

[Smudgerer]

47 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Well, if you see a difference when zoomed out viewing the entire image, I don’t see how. It’s literally a resized image just like you’d do in Photoshop. Several of us here and on FM tested this a while back. Leica is not doing some kind of pixel binning or other more sophisticated downsampling off the sensor, they are literally downsizing the image on the fly as it’s recorded just like you or I would do in PS.

If you’re seeing a difference when zoomed in on the 18mp images, then yes, I agree. (Although that look can be achieved by simply downsizing the 60mp images to 18mp in PS while using a resizing mode that doesn’t sharpen the image during the reduction.)

I love this forum, if you can suppress your own entrenched opinions you can learn a lot from others! Thank you hdmesa.

2nd part.....Yes zoomed in on the 18mp images that's where I do notice a difference, and as most of the time I convert colour to B&W then add grain I am finding that I do like the results, for now anyway.

Cheers!

[Alberti]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Well, --  Leica is not doing some kind of pixel binning or other more sophisticated downsampling off the sensor, they are literally downsizing the image on the fly as it’s recorded just like you or I would do in PS.

I like my lower res images in older bodies - high res can give problems,several know of that.

Now I am not technical, but I had hoped the binning (i.e. combining pixels in the sensor-reading) would have been the obvious way, as that would reduce some artifacts of lenses. And would give a natural boost in sensitivity (???)

by the way, I like the natural colour of the grey wall.

[hdmesa]

16 minutes ago, Alberti said:

I like my lower res images in older bodies - high res can give problems,several know of that.

Now I am not technical, but I had hoped the binning (i.e. combining pixels in the sensor-reading) would have been the obvious way, as that would reduce some artifacts of lenses. And would give a natural boost in sensitivity (???)

by the way, I like the natural colour of the grey wall.

There is an increase in DR resulting from the reduction in noise with the smaller files, but it mirrors the DR increase normally achieved when downsizing the image in Photoshop yourself. So most would conclude there is no real innovative benefit to the M11 smaller files outside of storage considerations and/or if it saves you time resizing.

Aliasing/moire is also not mitigated with the 36/18mp options. 

[dkmoore]

On 10/29/2024 at 7:25 PM, hdmesa said:

I think the word "look" is being used loosely here. There's no difference in the appearance of the images when zoomed out. If you zoom in to higher magnifications, the lower resolution file can appear less harsh. Same thing can be done to the 60mp files by downsizing them in Photoshop and not using the bicubic sharper option.

This defies what others are saying. Like me, you only notice a difference zoomed in or maybe (maybe is a stretch) printed large. 

Not sure I there is a more cinematic rendering at 18 versus 60 at regular viewing sizes, printed up to 24x36. 
 

I am open minded and will try it this weekend to see if I change my mind. 

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[dkmoore]

23 hours ago, maidenfan84 said:

Looks great to me! I know with my cameras, I intentionally dial down the MP count because I like a bit of grain/noise to my photos and I prefer not having the over sharpened look that is all the rage in 2024. Also get more room for more pics! Again, Fantastic lighting!

Huh? Reducing the Map doesn’t introduce grain/noise. Over sharpened? Now we are stretching. 
 

more room, valid point. This is real. The other stuff is not factual. 

[dkmoore]

13 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Well, if you see a difference when zoomed out viewing the entire image, I don’t see how. It’s literally a resized image just like you’d do in Photoshop. Several of us here and on FM tested this a while back. Leica is not doing some kind of pixel binning or other more sophisticated downsampling off the sensor, they are literally downsizing the image on the fly as it’s recorded just like you or I would do in PS.

If you’re seeing a difference when zoomed in on the 18mp images, then yes, I agree. (Although that look can be achieved by simply downsizing the 60mp images to 18mp in PS while using a resizing mode that doesn’t sharpen the image during the reduction.)

This is exactly my point.