Too good to be true?

[Tom-W]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Greetings from Switzerland.

I have worked as a photographer since 1979 and it is still my passion after all these years.

Recently, a client gave me two old Leicas. A IIIc a Leica 2. I put some B&W film through them and was immediately smitten by the operation and the results afterwards.

I decided to add to my small "collection" and came across these two "Leicas" being offered online for a good (for me) price. I like the look of them but am unsure as to whether or not they are legitimate Leica models. The seem a bit too new looking and "weird" (for want of a better word).

I am therefore appealing to the Gurus here to help me ascertain their legitimacy, Are they real?

My heartfelt thanks in advance.

EDIT: The seller writes that he has obscured the Leica name in the photos but not on the cameras themselves. No idea why.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited October 27, 2024 by Tom-W

[earleygallery]

Russian fakes! 

 

[earleygallery]

Quite err striking colour schemes. Probably worth about £50 each if working order. 

It’s a shame people do this as the cameras are actually OK and capable of delivering great results if you get a good one. I can imagine unmolested good examples going up in value in years to come.

[jc_braconi]

The lens have the same color as their flag...

[Anbaric]

4 hours ago, Tom-W said:

I decided to add to my small "collection" and came across these two "Leicas" being offered online for a good (for me) price. I like the look of them but am unsure as to whether or not they are legitimate Leica models. The seem a bit too new looking and "weird" (for want of a better word).

Your instinct is right, of course. These are fakes that started out as 'honest' Soviet copies of the Leica II. Because these cameras are already similar to the Leica, it's easy for a faker to grind off the original Soviet engravings, replace them with counterfeit 'Leica' engravings, and make something that can pass as a Leica to the uninitiated. Sometimes they aim for as 'authentic' a look as possible, but here they've made some rather strange fantasy cameras, refinishing them in a way that is strikingly different to any real Leica. The black camera was originally a Zorki 1, made by KMZ in Russia. I'm not sure if the wood-effect camera is an earlier variant of the Zorki 1, or a FED 1 from Ukraine. In case you come across less outrageous fakes in the future, here are some typical features of the Soviet copies to look out for:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-213.html

If you are interested in how they would have looked originally, here are some good sites:

https://www.sovietcams.com/

https://www.fedka.com/Frames/Main_Frame.htm

[jaapv]

Actually I find them-especially the wooden one rather charming. Quite refreshing after the swastika’d Luftwaffe ones. 

[250swb]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I think there would be a popular and far more profitable market in imaginatively modified Zorki's if they still left 'Zorki' written on it, and of course if it worked. At worst it may only be a crime against taste and not a fraud but I'm positive they'd appeal to the younger Lomo crowd.

[willeica]

This is a 'fake' because it claims to be a Leica. The FED I c, on which it is based, is a Leica 'copy' of which there many, including models produced in Japan, USA, UK and elsewhere. I picked up a genuine Fed I b from 1937 in its original leather case at a camera fair on Sunday. It is very closely based on early versions of the Leica II Model D, even down to the 'toilet seat' shape on the housing below the shutter speed dial. The cameras shown above show the slightly more angular shape introduced on the FED I c. Like Anbaric, I can recommend the 'Sovietcams' website, produced by my friend Oscar Fricke. Oscar is the son of Rolf Fricke (still going strong in his 90s) who sold his massive Leica collection to the Leica Archive in Wetzlar, where it forms one of the main collections of cameras held in the archive. 

William 

[Tom-W]

On 10/28/2024 at 2:50 AM, Anbaric said:

Your instinct is right, of course. These are fakes that started out as 'honest' Soviet copies of the Leica II. Because these cameras are already similar to the Leica, it's easy for a faker to grind off the original Soviet engravings, replace them with counterfeit 'Leica' engravings, and make something that can pass as a Leica to the uninitiated. Sometimes they aim for as 'authentic' a look as possible, but here they've made some rather strange fantasy cameras, refinishing them in a way that is strikingly different to any real Leica. The black camera was originally a Zorki 1, made by KMZ in Russia. I'm not sure if the wood-effect camera is an earlier variant of the Zorki 1, or a FED 1 from Ukraine. In case you come across less outrageous fakes in the future, here are some typical features of the Soviet copies to look out for:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-213.html

If you are interested in how they would have looked originally, here are some good sites:

https://www.sovietcams.com/

https://www.fedka.com/Frames/Main_Frame.htm

Thanks for taking the time out to answer. Much appreciated-

[Deeetona]

If they would not have misappropriated the Leica brand, they would be quite cool.

Adding "Betriebskamera" to the engraving and labeling is particularly cheeky.

[alphonse2501]

Fedka is selling one copy:

Replica Leica Betriebsk
https://fedka.com/fs/product/replica-leica-betriebsk/