Torn film stuck in M6

[Liverboy]

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Hi all,

I’ve been having a run of bad luck with a roll of Ektar in my M6 - the first time I failed to load effectively and got to frame 38 before it clicked with me that it had not clicked in the camera… opened the back and sure enough there was the tag outside the little cage. How many times has this happened.  Heartbreaking. I’m not a newbie, I’ve been using  film cameras for decades, Leicas for several years… anyway. Live and learn. 
So, reload, check tension and watch the rewind spool handle rotate; all good?  Not so! 
Eighteen frames later the advance lever jammed tight, like it does at the end of the spool. I guessed the film got stuck. I couldn’t advance the lever ( didn’t try to force it) and I knew it was 36 exposure roll… so I rewound and thankfully managed to hear the tag leaving the take up spool.. so easy to reload .. third time lucky maybe? - I wound on twenty frames or so ( exposing with cap on lens at f22) and started again, photographing a local carnival that my band was playing at. 
Shot some great pics, then some more, and this morning in the early light some wonderful landscapes.. this roll is lasting forever… no it can’t have happened again can it? Frame 38. Click. Wind on. Still frame 38.. and now the rewind isn’t rotating. Dammit. Tried to rewind and it’s easy to rewind, easy, too easy.. no resistance.. nothing fir it but to open the back and dammit the film is neatly wound round the take up spool and the canister is not attached to it! Shut the back quick ( I know, I know). 
I out the camera in a dark bag ( yes, should have done that first ) and took out the canister. I’ve included a pic or

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two. 
This is how it looked when I opened it. 
Manufacturing fault? I think so. There’s no way I used any undue force to advance the film. 
More pertinently and much more pressingly- how can I get the film out of the camera? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, thanks and apologies for the lengthy message. Cheers Dom
 

[philipj]

I had the exact same thing happen to me with a roll of Ektar 100 a couple of months ago, with a similar triangular tear on the film that remained on the cannister spool. I'm assuming this must be a manufacturing defect. Film was stuck in my Leica M-A and after a few hours of frustration both at home and at a local camera shop who also couldn't get the film out in a dark bag, we did it in the light, junking the roll. Needed to use a small screwdriver to catch the end of the film while rotating the takeup spool, which was simply impossible to do without being able to see where the remaining edge of the film was given the weird tear shape that you and I both had. Sorry about the lost shots, you can be guaranteed they were all bangers!

[LocalHero1953]

I can see why the triangular tear occurred, given that the end of the film has been turned back, presumably breaking a sprocket hole that became the start of the tear. 

How did all the sprocket holes on the other side of the film get torn, right back to the spool? Did that happen as you extracted the film from the canister? Or do you think it's an original manufacturing defect?

[Pyrogallol]

The torn film sprocket holes could never have been anywhere near the sprocket drive in the camera, which is on the other end of the camera to the cassette. Looks like a fault in the machinery that cuts and attaches the film to the spool when the cassette is being loaded in the factory. As you used the film it may have jammed up making you think you had come to the end of the film. 

[LocalHero1953]

It would cost very little to contact Kodak and send them this photo, as the fault is fairly obvious. They might send you some free film.
And fix their machine.

Edited October 14, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[Liverboy]

1 hour ago, philipj said:

I had the exact same thing happen to me with a roll of Ektar 100 a couple of months ago, with a similar triangular tear on the film that remained on the cannister spool. I'm assuming this must be a manufacturing defect. Film was stuck in my Leica M-A and after a few hours of frustration both at home and at a local camera shop who also couldn't get the film out in a dark bag, we did it in the light, junking the roll. Needed to use a small screwdriver to catch the end of the film while rotating the takeup spool, which was simply impossible to do without being able to see where the remaining edge of the film was given the weird tear shape that you and I both had. Sorry about the lost shots, you can be guaranteed they were all bangers!

Thanks very much for sharing your story- and I return sympathy for the lost shots…  ah, the ones that got away 😕 How interesting ( and consoling) that you had a similar experience - also with Ektar 100. 
 

[Liverboy]

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1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I can see why the triangular tear occurred, given that the end of the film has been turned back, presumably breaking a sprocket hole that became the start of the tear. 

How did all the sprocket holes on the other side of the film get torn, right back to the spool? Did that happen as you extracted the film from the canister? Or do you think it's an original manufacturing defect?

Pretty sure it wasn’t me, guv! I extracted the film quite gently as I was weeping at the time. Thanks for the reply 😊

[Liverboy]

1 hour ago, Pyrogallol said:

The torn film sprocket holes could never have been anywhere near the sprocket drive in the camera, which is on the other end of the camera to the cassette. Looks like a fault in the machinery that cuts and attaches the film to the spool when the cassette is being loaded in the factory. As you used the film it may have jammed up making you think you had come to the end of the film. 

Yes the film does looks like it warped and wasn’t attached straight to the cassette spindle. So the sideways torque as it was cranked tore it at the weak spot. 

[Liverboy]

1 hour ago, Pyrogallol said:

The torn film sprocket holes could never have been anywhere near the sprocket drive in the camera, which is on the other end of the camera to the cassette. Looks like a fault in the machinery that cuts and attaches the film to the spool when the cassette is being loaded in the factory. As you used the film it may have jammed up making you think you had come to the end of the film. 

Thanks, that was my thinking exactly 👍🏻 

[Liverboy]

Well, it came out all right in the end.. sort of..... Yes, I wasted most of a sunny morning up to my oxters in a darkbag trying to extract the film from the spool... only succeeded in pulling out the little spring that sits quietly in the take up "tulip". Another half hour later I gave up and opened the bag, and using the fine instruments you see here, eventually pulled out my beautiful film and resisted the urge to jump up and down on it... but that pesky spring... tricky to fit... well what did you think I was doing with a rolled up ten pound note? At that time in the morning? Really.. :-0

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Edited October 15, 2024 by Liverboy

[Hell]

At this point, no one would blame you. Good luck with the next roll!