The Leica M11 images out of camera

[Velo-city]

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New to the forum, interested in maybe trying an M10-P/R or M11, so have been looking through these image threads with interest.

My initial reaction was that most look very nice, but one question - presumably these aren't 'straight out of camera' but processed?  In which case the images are no less beautiful but doesn't give the me the info I was hoping for.

Apologies if it's not OK to add questions here (rather than images).  Please do delete if thats the case, and perhaps point me to the best place! 

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[Velo-city]

If thee are any good places to see SOOC images (here or elsewhere) pls let me 

[scott kirkpatrick]

why?  Today's cameras (and certainly M10s and M11s) capture more dynamic range than a jpeg prepared for showing on screen can present.  So bringing the most important information into what shows on screen or in a print is a critical part of planning, executing, and presenting an image.  So a compelling 8 stops on on-screen image density range has to be selected from the 13-14 stops that we can capture "SOOC."  Borrow good shots from the cameras that you are interested in, and you might get some answers, but get them as DNGs, not JPEGs.  As files, not as onscreen images.  (Maybe that is just what you are asking to see, but people don't usually share .DNGs.)

[jaapv]

Straight out of camera images are like local chemist prints of film. You see only a fraction of the camera’s potential and they are some IT technician’s interpretation of your photograph. High-level digital photography is 50 % taking the image, 50% postprocessing. 

[Derbyshire Man]

I’m in Crete. I’ll see if I can take some small jpg images along with the raws. What kind of colour do you want? Standard, vivid, monochrome?

I agree with the other guys though. More to be gained by processing and that’s always been the case, right back to the earliest days of photography. 

Edited October 12, 2024 by Derbyshire Man

[Velo-city]

Yes I’ve been photographing digitally a long time and am very familiar with Lightroom etc, mostly as a hobby.  

I was just curious as the SOOC images give a good representation of the quality of the camera according to Leicas interpretation, and that’s quite useful.

Processed images are mostly going to look better of course, but there might be an hours worth of work by an experienced colorist behind any image - including anything from simple colour/exposure to serious masking and filtering - the results of which are less about the camera. 

I work professionally in a related field in cinema and think I have a ‘reasonable’ eye and skill  but at the same time as I get older I like to spend less time in front of a computer (although failing) outside of work. Even though the film simulations on my x100v should allow an easier route to SOOC I still prefer the edited results.  I’m curious if the SOOC from Leica M (combined with the lenses) produce a nice aesthetic without processing. 

My partner just bought a Q3 43  so I plan to experiment there for myself - initial impression of the IQ was very positive (not a huge fan of the body though)

Edited October 12, 2024 by Velo-city

[Velo-city]

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11 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I’m in Crete. I’ll see if I can take some small jpg images along with the raws. What kind of colour do you want? Standard, vivid, monochrome?

Thanks so much. I don’t really do black and white so either of the colour options. 
 

Can it take raw and jpg simultaneously? And are there any controls over the output? Excuse the ignorance, have been trawling these forums and elsewhere before posting but haven’t fully absorbed the functionality of the M line

[Markey]

5 minutes ago, Velo-city said:

 

My partner just bought a Q3 43  so I plan to experiment there for myself - initial impression of the IQ was very positive (not a huge fan of the body though)

I`ve been considering this model. Just curious as to the reasons re the body ?

[Velo-city]

Mmm. To be fair it’s only been in the house a week and I haven’t used it much so I’d take these comments in that spirit. 

Having used the x100v for a couple of years (and previously mostly heavy Nikon DSLR or Mamiya MF for quite a period) I found the Leica didn’t sit nicely in the hand in comparison. Without the grip it’s heavy and the ergonomics don’t help you at all. With the grip it’s still uncomfortable. The power switch seemed ‘sharp edged’ and the trackpad thing is jammed next to a screen that sits quite proud. I’ve got big thumbs and it’s awkward. That’s my first impression. Not all bad. It’s got a lovely big viewfinder, nice UI overlay, and seems built like a tank. But I wouldn’t be able to hold it long. 
conversely the x100v is smaller and lighter but even with no accessories at least has some curves etc to help you hold it. The controls even though smaller are fine for my fingers too because they’re well spaced out and the screen sits flush. (Of course its a smaller sensor, but still....)

I guess I also applied the price tag to the whole thing and couldn’t quite believe it. Let’s not even talk about the case/grip not giving access to the SD card and involves a rather tricky strap removal - bonkers!

But like I said it’s a first impression. Who knows I’ll be back here in a year saying I bought one and am a Leica convert!

(I guess I’m talking mostly about one-handed here)

Edited October 12, 2024 by Velo-city

[Derbyshire Man]

The Q series absolutely need the thumb grip, transforms them. 

[tappan]

15 hours ago, jaapv said:

Straight out of camera images are like local chemist prints of film. You see only a fraction of the camera’s potential and they are some IT technician’s interpretation of your photograph. High-level digital photography is 50 % taking the image, 50% postprocessing. 

I agree to a point, and I should say, I always enjoy your wise advice. I understand about an "IT technician’s interpretation", but that said, I do want to get very close to what the actual reality is (what I saw through the viewfinder). For me, the Leica camera(s) that I have that got the closest was the M9-P, except for the over saturated reds. The 2nd best for my purposes of "getting closer" is my M10-P. My M10-R does not come close, unfortunately, however it cleans up well in post production.
Mark

[don daniel]

Hardly anyone here dares to show JPGs straight from the M11 camera, simply because hardly anyone is still capable of taking good pictures without post-processing tricks. Additionally, with the M11, the white balance is atrocious.

[jaapv]

If a jpg fits your taste that is a good thing, but the feeling is by no means universal , witness the many “inferior “ Leica jog threads in this forum. And a jog is close to immutable. 

[jaapv]

4 minutes ago, don daniel said:

Hardly anyone here dares to show JPGs straight from the M11 camera, simply because hardly anyone is still capable of taking good pictures without post-processing tricks. Additionally, with the M11, the white balance is atrocious.

I would read techniques for tricks. No digital photo is optimal without appropriate postprocessing. 

[Velo-city]

13 minutes ago, don daniel said:

Hardly anyone here dares to show JPGs straight from the M11 camera, simply because hardly anyone is still capable of taking good pictures without post-processing tricks. Additionally, with the M11, the white balance is atrocious.

Yes I’ve seen this mentioned a bit, and as someone allergic to magenta it put me off a bit. I started looking at pics of M10 but I posted my question in the wrong place! In any case I’d prefer the newer one for all the usual reasons (usbc etc) but I hear it also has lockups even now, and that Leica are glacial at firmware fixes. So all things considered I’m tempted to try an m10p or r. But they seem so old (in digital terms) and still go for quite a hefty price used. 
 

[jaapv]

The M9M is my favorite M camera for the images it produces.

It is the first time I heard anybody mention USBC as a reason to choose a camera, let alone calling it a usual reason.
 

Without any negative intent, reading your posts, I am starting to doubt whether an M is really the type of camera you are looking for. It is the antithesis of other concepts. Don’t expect the camera to do your photographing for you - it puts the ball firmly in the photographer’s court.

For instance , Magenta cast is a total non-issue. Colour is set in raw conversion and is totally dependent on the photographer’s taste. I profile every camera I get as there is none that gives exactly the colours I like. 

Yes you can shoot the camera in jpg and some users do for their own reasons and satisfaction but it is certainly not Leica’ s forte nor, I get the impression, their prime priority. 
 

The reason older models go for a hefty price is that Leicas are not about for being cutting edge digital. 
If that were the case Leica would sell very few cameras. 

[Derbyshire Man]

Just drinking my morning coffee so here’s a SOOC jpg auto WB M11D with 28mm at f8 highlight priority metering, standard colour. I had to save at 40% quality however due to file size restrictions!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited October 13, 2024 by Derbyshire Man

[Mahesh]

12 hours ago, don daniel said:

Hardly anyone here dares to show JPGs straight from the M11 camera, simply because hardly anyone is still capable of taking good pictures without post-processing tricks. Additionally, with the M11, the white balance is atrocious.

I agree with you whole heartedly but then that's the case with most ILCs unless you go with Fujifilm but then even with those you'll need to do some adjustments to make pictures look better. 

There are some examples of jpegs here and in good light most cameras will give you good jpegs sooc anyway.

I agree and do wish camera companies also spent some time finessing jpegs rather than non essentials like higher megapixels and other things (in my opinion) 

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[jaapv]

Given the limited potential of jpgs I doubt whether camera makers have any interest beyond competition. Impressive-but essentially irrelevant- things like MP numbers sell more cameras. 

[Velo-city]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

.Without any negative intent, reading your posts, I am starting to doubt whether an M is really the type of camera you are looking for.

I mean I’ve literally asked a couple of specific questions, otherwise you know nothing about me, so I’m not sure how you could possibly reach that conclusion….