Do I really need an autofocus camera in addition to my M10-R?

[mmanda]

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On 10/11/2024 at 12:03 AM, simplicity said:

Maybe someone has gone through something similar or dealt with similar thoughts? 

Yeh me!  All the time

So until about 3 days ago I had a M10 (with 35, 50, 90 elmar and a 28 TT Artisans) and an OM-1 and a X100V

I love my M10.  I love the simplicity, I love earning an infocus/well exposed shot regardless of whether its a good composition.... I just love that satisfaction it gives me.  

I got a X100V thinking it would be a nice camera for when I dont wanto to use the M10.  So I start using the M10 and X100V.  Then I got out the OM-1 to try shoot the Aurora... spent 20 mins faffing about in the cold trying to work out the bloody menu - I kept confusing the X100V menu with the OM-1 and was incredibly frustrated.

When I use the x100V it doesnt do much for me, I wish i had the M10.  So I sold it.

I am going to Borneo in April and I love nature, birds etc.  So I am going to master that bloody OM-1 AF system and practice practice practice till the trip.   With the M10 I will use it for everything but the bird shots etc but the M10 will be my do it all. I tell a lie, I'll still put that 9cm Elmar on and try shoot birds with that because thats fun . 

I have managed in focus shots of my son running etc...  in fact I feel AF is more frustrating as all the computerised elements of modern cameras take away from the actual art of making images.  

Anyhoo that is the AF life according to Amanda right now.  

https://flic.kr/p/2qeNLpu

Here is an example of kids on a swing moving... i had so much fun shooting these pics.  Are they great images?  Maybe not for you but for me I think it was great...  i captured a super fun day that we will all remember.  

Edited October 16, 2024 by mmanda

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[LocalHero1953]

18 hours ago, M11 for me said:

At a reception with lots of people I want to have a shot done within 1 or max 2 seconds. Like that I have rarely people looking into the lens of my camera (that is what I would like to avoid). I belong to the group of shooters that cannot perform that with my M. It takes me to much time.

For most of my photographic life I had no AF, just focus scale, rangefinder or SLR split image screen, so inevitably I became quick at using them. Now I use AF almost all the time: Q2, SL2-S (and before that CL, TL). FWIW my take on speed of focusing for a shot of people or other mobile subjects (which don't always move)...........

AF is great for getting that instant shot. Depending on how you have set up your AF (face, multi field, spot etc) your chances of success can be good to very good. There might still be a slight delay while the camera acquires focus (e.g. identifies an eye), but it is not necessarily a long delay. Manual focus, for me, is likely to be slower at getting that first shot - perhaps a bit quicker if you are pre-focusing or zone-focusing - and may not be absolutely accurately focused first time; close-enough perhaps but no on the nail.

Where MF really scores, IMO, is in subsequent shots. Once you have go that first shot, if the subject is stationary, even for a few seconds, your camera doesn't need to do anything different: you can keep mashing the shutter with zero delay while you wait for just the right expression. For AF, the camera still has to check the focus; for MF, it doesn't.

This is where back button AF is great. It can get you an accurate focus for the first shot, but thereafter you're using MF, with no delay.

[simplicity]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb mmanda:

I have managed in focus shots of my son running etc...  in fact I feel AF is more frustrating as all the computerised elements of modern cameras take away from the actual art of making images.  

Anyhoo that is the AF life according to Amanda right now.  

https://flic.kr/p/2qeNLpu

Here is an example of kids on a swing moving... i had so much fun shooting these pics.  Are they great images?  Maybe not for you but for me I think it was great...  i captured a super fun day that we will all remember.  

I can absolutely feel your story. And the picture is great - even more for you as a mother knowing the way it was created and the moment! 

[M11 for me]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb LocalHero1953:

For most of my photographic life I had no AF, just focus scale, rangefinder or SLR split image screen, so inevitably I became quick at using them. Now I use AF almost all the time: Q2, SL2-S (and before that CL, TL). FWIW my take on speed of focusing for a shot of people or other mobile subjects (which don't always move)...........

AF is great for getting that instant shot. Depending on how you have set up your AF (face, multi field, spot etc) your chances of success can be good to very good. There might still be a slight delay while the camera acquires focus (e.g. identifies an eye), but it is not necessarily a long delay. Manual focus, for me, is likely to be slower at getting that first shot - perhaps a bit quicker if you are pre-focusing or zone-focusing - and may not be absolutely accurately focused first time; close-enough perhaps but no on the nail.

Where MF really scores, IMO, is in subsequent shots. Once you have go that first shot, if the subject is stationary, even for a few seconds, your camera doesn't need to do anything different: you can keep mashing the shutter with zero delay while you wait for just the right expression. For AF, the camera still has to check the focus; for MF, it doesn't.

This is where back button AF is great. It can get you an accurate focus for the first shot, but thereafter you're using MF, with no delay.

Thank you for this. Great explanation. 

 

[Olaf_ZG]

Not sure if YOU need it, but I know I need it. To often, the light is not at my liking, so I might have a modifier in one hand and a camera in the other. The SL is rather heavy with the SL Lux for one hand steady holding, so I really look forward to the new Q. Light and versatile as a M, just different.

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb LocalHero1953:

Where MF really scores, IMO, is in subsequent shots. Once you have go that first shot, if the subject is stationary, even for a few seconds, your camera doesn't need to do anything different: you can keep mashing the shutter with zero delay while you wait for just the right expression. For AF, the camera still has to check the focus; for MF, it doesn't.

Depends on the mode. Usually there are options, where in a series only the first one is auto-focused. But modern cameras like A1 or A9III have such a fast AF, that they can easily nail the focus on every shot in a series even in dynamic scenes. It's a completely different type of shooting - I enjoy having the option to choose from both options.

[BenMathes]

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I use a Q2 Reporter as my autofocus/digital wonder. My primary cameras are M6’s with 28,35,50,75 with the 50 Summi being my go to-

in rain etc, the Q2, for some travel if I’m too lazy to carry extra glass- the Q2

but the M6’s inspire and encourage my creativity- 

25 years with R and M series professionally documenting remote countries, wars, etc. I strayed to Canon a couple of times and love my F1N series, but always come back to M6- hope this helps!!

[erniethemilk]

I’ll be honest, I’ve owned my M10-P for just over 5 years now and having lost it this year for repair for 8 months I picked up a Nikon Zf.  Now I have both in hand, I’m wondering if I still need manual focus when the ZF does such a good job!

[olgierdc]

Maybe I'll add my two cents.

You now have two completely different systems.

Each system must be learned, remembered and then used skillfully. Adding a third system will require learning different settings. Then there are mistakes and moments of reflection. It's hard to imagine being able to operate multiple systems fluently. We miss what is most important in photography, i.e. what is happening in front of the lens.

My photography teacher repeatedly told me to have two cameras, one for professional work and the other for family and vacation photos.

I have an M10-R and I have a Ricoh III.

I always wonder which one to get. Small or large? Light or heavy, with or without autofocus? Optical viewfinder or screen?

And I should only think about what photos I want to take.

I guess I need to get rid of Ricoh...

[simplicity]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb olgierdc:

My photography teacher repeatedly told me to have two cameras, one for professional work and the other for family and vacation photos.

Good point - this was my way till this October (Fuji X-H2S for work and M10-R private use).

vor 2 Stunden schrieb olgierdc:

I always wonder which one to get. Small or large? Light or heavy, with or without autofocus? Optical viewfinder or screen?

reflects my thoughts about my equipment 😉 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb olgierdc:

Each system must be learned, remembered and then used skillfully. Adding a third system will require learning different settings. Then there are mistakes

Absolutely, so a third system would be useless. Even a second is questionnable, 

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb olgierdc:

And I should only think about what photos I want to take.

yep - me too. 

so equipment is not so important - as we all know - but sometimes it is nice to have the right tool - that's a problem sometimes 😉 

for me at the moment: Fuji stays as it costs nothing at the moment - also unsure about buying new lenses for the M or the visoflex 😉. Time will bring answers I think (hopefully I will know what I really "finally" need)

[charlesphoto99]

4 hours ago, olgierdc said:

My photography teacher repeatedly told me to have two cameras, one for professional work and the other for family and vacation photos.

 

Your teacher was wrong. Not to say you can't or shouldn't use different cameras for different purposes, but to delineate in that way is ignorance. Sometimes your family and vacation are the 'work.' 

[padam]

If I wanted a camera to mix it up for AF, I would consider something different to Leica, they just cost too much for what they offer.
The fiercest Leica alternative I found to be basically any more recent Canon FF mirrorless (R6, R6II, R8, R5 etc.) with an RF 28-70mm f/2L lens.
While I don't like Sony cameras as much, their latest 28-70mm f/2 GM lens definitely worth a mention, being as good or better, while being much lighter.
While this combination is touted as a single solution for weddings, these also have perfect coverage for family photography with more of that prime-like look.
Also had the SL 24-90/2.8-4, that was also nice, but the SL bodies let it down, having super reliable eye-tracking AF linked to a faster aperture makes a big difference.
While I use plenty of other lenses - they just don't seem to be necessary outside of this range.

The greatest assets of these cameras is sometimes they can be handed over to another person, and they will be able to take perfectly exposed and focused photos with the look of full-frame without the ability to figure about how to do it with a 28mm prime for instance.
When I use Leicas, there are almost no memories captured of me like that.

Not saying that any this is needed. I have given a Nikon D70 with a cheap lens to my then 4-year-old nephew in decent light, and I was suprised that even a 20-year-old DSLR in auto mode could work quite well for the most part (and even the colours are pretty alright from a CCD sensor, it's not Just an M9, arguably easier to process than modern cameras with Adobe, because the Cameras Profiles are not screwed...)
Of course, more modern, bigger, higher resolution sensors with fast lenses may require a different level of accuracy.

Just saying that the something like this might worth a try, since having the ability to take such a different variety of grab shots while being perfectly focused on the eyes with the flexibility of quickly changing focal lengths (I try to set it first, then move like a prime) while costing no more than a Q3 carries a great deal of value.
It really complements what an M does, instead of trying to be similar with AF (that's not the most dependable anyway...)

By the way, due to running yet another circle with an SL2, I don't have the lens anymore sadly (sometimes using an RF 28/2.8 currently, different kind of fun, a bit like having a FF GR that Ricoh may never do, the variety of Great photo equipment seem almost endless these days...I also use a Canon 28/2.8 LTM on the SL2), partly because I pretty much felt bad for seeing all this collection of Great manual rangefinder primes gathering dust for the most part.

I am still on a lookout for one, since if there is only One lens that I could use, it just couldn't be a prime.
And I would prefer my Leica to be an M10-R instead of an SL2 - but there is lens flexibility, IBIS, video, rangefinder misalignment, price etc...

As always, each to his own. Happy shooting.