Leica 11 in humid conditions

[Jon D]

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I’m due to take a trip to the Philippines in the not too distant future. I’m probably not going to take my M11 because of the humidity versus the lack of weather sealing on the M11. Am I being unnecessarily concerned?

 

kind regards

JD

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[Max EPR]

This last March, I took my M11 to Thailand. It was about 95F and 95% humidity. It was painfully hot. For the first time in 2 years of use, the M11 started to lock up. I had to take the battery out to make it function. I have never had this problem repeat itself before or after that trip. This is the response I received from Leica when I reported the issue: "The M11 is not a fully sealed system like our SL and S cameras are. Likewise it does not have an IP rating so generally I would not suggest using it in extremely humid environments. Have you experienced the same level of freezing since being back from south east Asia? Did you by chance update your firmware just prior to your trip or during your trip? We have heard reports of a small amount of M11 users experiencing intermittent freezing since updating to firmware 2.0.1 and 2.0.2." I am going back to S.E. Asia in early 2025. I'm going to take my SL3. All this said, my M11 is my favorite Leica, but not in extreme heat/humid conditions.

[Jon D]

Thank you for that. It helps me settle with the decision to take a different camera. 

[rogxwhit]

And obviously it's not just the bodies, but the lenses too that are a concern ...

[Derbyshire Man]

One of the bloggers on YouTube lives in Vietnam and shoots M11. Not seen him report any issues. 
 

Main risk is ice cold aircon environment direct to humid outside. In that situation best to allow a bit of time for the camera to warm. Best done in a plastic bag!

[jaapv]

17 hours ago, Jon D said:

I’m due to take a trip to the Philippines in the not too distant future. I’m probably not going to take my M11 because of the humidity versus the lack of weather sealing on the M11. Am I being unnecessarily concerned?

 

kind regards

JD

You are.

Many of us have used M cameras in adverse conditions. For instance I have used my digital Ms  in the tropical rainforest on Lake Tanganyika for a week with the viewfinder all fogged up, in normal rain , in the spray of Vic Falls, swamped by a wave on Lake Malawi, etc. Tina Manley even fell into a river in Honduras IIRC carrying her M8 through the pouring rain. 
These things, although not waterproof ( even so-called “ weatherproof “ cameras are not, it is little more than a marketing term, the few that publish an IP rating seldom go beyond IP 53. -spray coming in at no more than 15 degrees  for ten minutes- ) can absorb far more abuse than many nervous owners realize ( or even absorb themselves 😂) 

The M cameras are built with exceptionally tight tolerances and ruggedly and are designed to be take-anywhere travel tools. Don’t treat them like fragile prima Donna’s. 
Without a guarantee, moisture can hit if you are very unlucky, they can take a lot. The thing to guard for is condensation when leaving airconditioned spaces, that can kill any camera, sealed or not. The M is better than most in that respect as it can ventilate the inside a bit.

As for lenses: well built lenses without electronics in them are far less vulnerable than any weathersealed electronic wonder. 

And M cameras are being sold in the Philippines as well Leica would not do so if they were to disintegrate over there. 

If the worst were to come to the unlikely worst consult your friendly insurance agent. 

[elmars]

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Jaapv ist right.

[SiggiGun]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb elmars:

Jaapv ist right.

I agree. I have made several longer stays in Hong Kong. I always had an M with me with 2-3 lenses. At least there, where it can often be humid and warm, I had no problems.

 

[jaapv]

16 hours ago, rogxwhit said:

And obviously it's not just the bodies, but the lenses too that are a concern ...

No.
No electronics, tight tolerances, corrosion-resistant materials, lubricants, etc. Even if the lens should get moist inside, just dry it out.
 The main concern would be the bayonet. In extreme conditions some users grease a hair-scrunchy and put it around the interface to the flange

[jaapv]

16 hours ago, Max EPR said:

This last March, I took my M11 to Thailand. It was about 95F and 95% humidity. It was painfully hot. For the first time in 2 years of use, the M11 started to lock up. I had to take the battery out to make it function. I have never had this problem repeat itself before or after that trip. This is the response I received from Leica when I reported the issue: "The M11 is not a fully sealed system like our SL and S cameras are. Likewise it does not have an IP rating so generally I would not suggest using it in extremely humid environments. Have you experienced the same level of freezing since being back from south east Asia? Did you by chance update your firmware just prior to your trip or during your trip? We have heard reports of a small amount of M11 users experiencing intermittent freezing since updating to firmware 2.0.1 and 2.0.2." I am going back to S.E. Asia in early 2025. I'm going to take my SL3. All this said, my M11 is my favorite Leica, but not in extreme heat/humid conditions.

My diagnosis? Overheating. That will lock it up until cooled down a bit especially with extended EVF use. It will do the same in dry hot conditions. The M is vulnerable to that problem being tightly packed in a cramped all metal body. Had the same problem when using M cameratas in central Africa in the dry season. Max operating temperature is 40 Celsius, although there is some tolerance there. 

[jeri]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

My diagnosis? Overheating. That will lock it up until cooled down a bit especially with extended EVF use. It will do the same in dry hot conditions. The M is vulnerable to that problem being tightly packed in a cramped all metal body. Had the same problem when using M cameratas in central Africa in the dry season. Max operating temperature is 40 Celsius, although there is some tolerance there. 

It reminds me of my Sigma Merrill dp2 camera, which sometimes gets very hot during hard work, and it doesn't take a particularly hot day for that. But contrary to the story you bring, the Sigma Merrill dp2 never jams. Anyway, maybe because its battery barely lasts 72 frames, like the Olympus EE2, so chances are its little battery will die and make me stop for a few seconds to change to the next one. Either way, the Merrill dp2 is an unstoppable camera.

[frame-it]

19 hours ago, Jon D said:

I’m due to take a trip to the Philippines in the not too distant future. I’m probably not going to take my M11 because of the humidity versus the lack of weather sealing on the M11. Am I being unnecessarily concerned?

 

kind regards

JD

have you been to japan or Korea in summer or bangkok/singapore/vietnam? killer humidity. and everyone still uses their digital M cameras, no issues

as people mentioned, being outdoors and then going directly into an air conditioned area/taxi etc has to be avoided

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

My diagnosis? Overheating. That will lock it up until cooled down a bit especially with extended EVF use. It will do the same in dry hot conditions. The M is vulnerable to that problem being tightly packed in a cramped all metal body. Had the same problem when using M cameratas in central Africa in the dry season. Max operating temperature is 40 Celsius, although there is some tolerance there. 

Should we restart the discussion of the merits of a silver body over a black one? 🫣 Of course in sunny environments, there is the risk being blinded by the reflection off silver gear 🫠

[jaapv]

22 hours ago, jeri said:

It reminds me of my Sigma Merrill dp2 camera, which sometimes gets very hot during hard work, and it doesn't take a particularly hot day for that. But contrary to the story you bring, the Sigma Merrill dp2 never jams. Anyway, maybe because its battery barely lasts 72 frames, like the Olympus EE2, so chances are its little battery will die and make me stop for a few seconds to change to the next one. Either way, the Merrill dp2 is an unstoppable camera.

The M cameras will have the camera freeze when overheating. 

[jaapv]

18 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Should we restart the discussion of the merits of a silver body over a black one? 🫣 Of course in sunny environments, there is the risk being blinded by the reflection off silver gear 🫠

My M340 is was a  silver body and was the worst for overheating freezes. 

[jeri]

22 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The M cameras will have the camera freeze when overheating. 

I live in a 'warm country'. Can't say I know or have experienced such a phenomenon on my Leica M8.

[jaapv]

19 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Should we restart the discussion of the merits of a silver body over a black one? 🫣 Of course in sunny environments, there is the risk being blinded by the reflection off silver gear 🫠

My M340 is was a  silver body and was the worst for overheating freezes. 

[jaapv]

15 minutes ago, jeri said:

I live in a 'warm country'. Can't say I know or have experienced such a phenomenon on my Leica M8.

Nor I The problem started when higher processing demands were made on the CPU by the advent of a live video feed from the CMOS sensor for use of an EVF and live view, generating more heat. The smaller body of M10 and M11 does not help either. 

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[Derbyshire Man]

My physics was er, quite a long while ago but as long as it’s out of the sunlight a black camera should radiate its heat and equilibrate more quickly than a silver one. If the environmental temperature is higher than the operating temperature then you’re all round stuffed!

[frame-it]

Just now, Derbyshire Man said:

My physics was er, quite a long while ago but as long as it’s out of the sunlight a black camera should radiate its heat and equilibrate more quickly than a silver one. If the environmental temperature is higher than the operating temperature then you’re all round stuffed!

does it still work if the object in question is also generating heat from within?