Looking for 35mm m lens with character for color film M.

[jamesm5]

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Hi everyone,

What do you think in your opinion(because to me character is subjective)? maybe I will based my decision on majority and popular choice.

i narrowed my search on the ff lens, as looking at the example photos on the internet.

 

LLL 35mm f2 8 ele

summaron f2.8 35mm

summicron v3 

voigtlander nokton 1.5

 

which would your prefer to shoot on your film m? Colored. 
 

thank you so much

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[a.noctilux]

I use on film and sensor and never been upset with the two Leitz 35mm lenses you cited.

In your shoes, I'd choose one of these "cheap lenses" for Leitz brand.

If you can find one of 35mm Summaron or Summicron III, don't let it pass you by.

Other would choose other cheaper lens, nothing wrong with this.

I have plenty of 35mm lenses, I'd have hard time choosing just one lens, but Summarit-M 2.5/35mm (the one I use now) comes very close.

As side note, 2/35 "III" feeling "solid" and no "king of ..." keeps the second hand price reasonable.

[mahakalaka]

Of the four you listed, I only have experience with the Summicron v3. It was the only lens I had for a couple years on my first M6. As many do, I went down the rabbit hole of trying a bunch of different lenses and cameras and sold it along the way. I soon missed it. A few years later I bought a V4 which is now still my main M lens that I really love too, but still have fond memories and photos taken with the v3. I can highly recommend it.

[SiggiGun]

Consider the new "old" f1.4/35 Summilux. Character and old fashion.

[TomB_tx]

On film I really like the Nokton 1.4, for both handling and results. 

[shirubadanieru]

I don’t think the Nokton f1.5 is considered a lens with character, but the f1.4 is, and that would be a great one to go with since it’s the closest you get in rendering to the Summilux 35mm f1.4 pre-asph, but less glow, closer minimum focus, and ability to use filters, and of course the much cheaper price.

The LLL 8e is a great lens since it’s a replica of the 8 elements!
Summaron too is great, but to be honest is not too characterful and is already quite sharp wide open (+ everyone prefers to use it with B&W film). On top of that is only f2.8 so it may be more limiting as your only lens. 

Summicron v3 is great too, very small, good rendering, but 3 to 4x more expensive than all above lenses.

[LocalHero1953]

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What is 'character'?

[spydrxx]

I think you really should firstly determine what speed lens you "need" and that will narrow your search. I owned the Summaron 35/2.8 for a number of years and it always delivered. But was it special - I don't think so....just a fine journeyman's lens and if I could only choose one this would be it. My  Summicron Asph. was sold shortly after acquiring it...it just seemed to not distinguish itself for the money. I'm still on the fence with the Nockton 50/1.5, I want to love it, but just am not there yet.  I've had a Nockton 35/1.4 classic sc for about a year now and am quite pleased with it as I shoot mostly B&W on film, color on digital. I you get a chance to try out any of your selections before purchasing, I strongly suggest actually seeing how the deliver for your style and how they feel ergonomically. IMHO the 35 focal length is the critical one for me.

[jamesm5]

Thank you everyone for your insights! Upon reading, i think i need to cross out summaron. Im looking to v3 and 8 ele. And thanks for informing me that nokton 1.4 is a character lens more than the 1.5. 

[jamesm5]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Of the lenses you listed none of them has real strong character, especially not Nokton 1.5

if you like only that much character, then the Summicron is perfect either V1 (which is LLL), V2, V3 or V4. Summaron is a tad slower. But similar.

Thanks and noted, may I ask what lens have strong character in your view?

[jamesm5]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Summilux 35 v2, Summilux "Steel Rim", Summilux 75/1.4, Noctilux 50/1.2 and 1.0... check out my Old Delft 35 thread, it is also one perfect example.

Thanks Al! This is the look ive been looking for. Somewhat hazy and cinematic. Wonder if it will be the same on film camera. Sadly, its very rare at my place to find "old deft", do you know some lens ressembles the look? Thank you again.

Edited October 1, 2024 by jamesm5

[f8low]

Looking for color rendering differences on film sounds like a curious project! Do you have a strategy for separating the character of the lens from the character of the digitalisation process? I've tried a couple of things in that space but in the end, all digitalisation solutions have their own frame-specific calibration/normalization so I found it hard to be sure each lenses character is transported equally through the process.

While I am all in on film I think comparing color is somehow more effective on digital (though I never tried!). Curious why you choose film - probably that's just your medium? 

[hansvons]

8 hours ago, jamesm5 said:

Thanks Al! This is the look ive been looking for. Somewhat hazy and cinematic. Wonder if it will be the same on film camera. Sadly, its very rare at my place to find "old deft", do you know some lens ressembles the look?

You can achieve this look with any modern lens and a diffusion filter.  

You seem to look out for a cinematic look, and, in deed, diffusion filters are used in cinematography since ever. However, a “cinematic” look has more to do with the subject and staging, plus the lighting than the lens. Shooting film will help that in regard to timelessness and authenticity. However, and it can't be said enough, cinematic photographs are all about staging your subjects, the location, and the storytelling ambitions/genre.

The Nokton f/1.4 SC v2 is basically a Steel Rim/Summilux v1 copy and works on film like a charm. It flares nicely (cinematographers love flares), glows like hell at full aperture and looks somewhat hazy, and becomes relatively sharp at f/2.8. It's the proverbial character lens in a modern housing with a build quality Leica would approve on. Look only further if you are a collector. 

That said, all fast vintage 35mm lenses in the M format vignette considerably/heavily at full aperture. That means that the edges are roughly 2 stops lower exposed than the centre. A 60ies f/1.4 lens might offer you one stop more in the centre but not at the edges compared to a 90ies Summicon f/2 lens.

Why does that matter? Negative hates underexposure. Contrary to digital, the underexposed edges won’t appear much darker but more grainy and show funky colour shifts due to the underexposure. You have to repair that in post by adding a strong, artificial vignette. That’s why it’s best practices to rate a film stocks EI (exposure index) at least on stop lower, provided that the exposure is already fat. Otherwise, 11/2 to 2 stops are even better. Thus, an ISO 400 film will be rated at ISO/EI 160. Leica’s film Ms measure only the centre of the image, while SLRs often offer an integral light meter that will take into account the vignetting at least partial. But even then, it makes sense to reduce the EI about one stop. 

One last thought: a lens’s character will be subdued on film compared to digital. That is particularly true when it is used adapted to mirrorless DSLRs. Vignetting, corner smearing, glow, and chromatic aberrations will be less visible on film, haze, micro contrast, sharpness, spherical aberrations, etc. will be roughly the same. 

I shoot mostly film and prefer the Summicron 35mm ASPH on my film Ms. Why? I don't have to worry as much about grainy corners, get sharp images at full aperture, and still have the character quirks like curvature and flares, which I like to leverage whenever appropriate, eg, events, travel, etc. It’s a cinematographer’s everyday dream stills photography lens.

[pippy]

I'd essentially back up what many others have already written; especially Shirubadanieru, Al and hansvons.

Of the lenses you mention (but considering the f1.4 Nokton rather than the f1.5) in my experience(*) the Voigtlander will have the most 'vintage' look at max. aperture. The LLL '8-E' will be roughly the same from f2.8 down. The Summaron is not really to be considered as a 'Character' lens; it renders pretty neutrally at all apertures. The v3 Summicron is a lovely lens but, again, not quite as 'vintage' in rendering in comparison to the LLL '8-E'.

With the Nokton it should be remebered that there are two different models out there and each of them was / is available in either Single-Coated or Multi-Coated versions. The earlier (retrospectively called the 'v1') was prone to notable focus-shift in certain conditions. This was addressed for the newer release. These later lenses can be identified by a small 'II' designation on the front ring where the Voigtlander Nokton (etc) lettering is written.

Philip.

* This is based on shooting with a v2 Summlux, an LLL '8-E', and an f3.5 Summaron as well as a 40mm f1.4 Nokton MC (which renders very like the Summilux at all apertures).

[jamesm5]

20 hours ago, pippy said:

I'd essentially back up what many others have already written; especially Shirubadanieru, Al and hansvons.

Of the lenses you mention (but considering the f1.4 Nokton rather than the f1.5) in my experience(*) the Voigtlander will have the most 'vintage' look at max. aperture. The LLL '8-E' will be roughly the same from f2.8 down. The Summaron is not really to be considered as a 'Character' lens; it renders pretty neutrally at all apertures. The v3 Summicron is a lovely lens but, again, not quite as 'vintage' in rendering in comparison to the LLL '8-E'.

With the Nokton it should be remebered that there are two different models out there and each of them was / is available in either Single-Coated or Multi-Coated versions. The earlier (retrospectively called the 'v1') was prone to notable focus-shift in certain conditions. This was addressed for the newer release. These later lenses can be identified by a small 'II' designation on the front ring where the Voigtlander Nokton (etc) lettering is written.

Philip.

* This is based on shooting with a v2 Summlux, an LLL '8-E', and an f3.5 Summaron as well as a 40mm f1.4 Nokton MC (which renders very like the Summilux at all apertures).

Thank you everyone. Now im down to to choices; LLL 8e and nokton 1.4. But i guess ill go choose Lll8e. Thank you for your insight

[pippy]

53 minutes ago, jamesm5 said:

Thank you everyone. Now im down to to choices; LLL 8e and nokton 1.4. But i guess ill go choose Lll8e...

I think that would be a very good decision; it really is a wonderfully realised lens in every respect.

Just on the off-chance that you have not already had a read-through of this excellent post by Al Brown you might find it to be of some interest;

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326477-summicron-352-8-element-vs-light-lens-lab-352-a-direct-comparison/

Philip.

[jamesm5]

33 minutes ago, pippy said:

I think that would be a very good decision; it really is a wonderfully realised lens in every respect.

Just on the off-chance that you have not already had a read-through of this excellent post by Al Brown you might find it to be of some interest;

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326477-summicron-352-8-element-vs-light-lens-lab-352-a-direct-comparison/

Philip.

This would be a great read! Looking through it now as we speak. I appreciate every help. Cheers!