Leica M11-D: The camera without a display enters the next round

[evikne]

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1 hour ago, hillavoider said:

Getting shake free, sharp photos on the M11’s 60mp sensor is sometimes difficult even after 3 years of practice and I need the screen to check 

To me, Leica M - and the D models in particular - is for casual shooting. So I probably would have used it mostly at 18 or 36 MP. But it would have been nice to have the option of higher resolution in cases where I wanted it (and then I could use a tripod if necessary).

Edited September 14, 2024 by evikne

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[maxpower]

I'll probably not be able to resist getting one even eventually though it makes no sense for me to get, luckily it being sold out gives me time to think. One thing I feel like I haven't seen discussed yet is the new packaging! Finally the boring regular M11 box is gone and they have made something entirely new. While it's not the same as the M10 box I think it's a huge improvement over the M11 box that they've used so far.

Since I hadn't heard anyone talk about it the only way I found out was this video on YouTube:

Also, it looks like the regular charger is no longer included? Only a USB-C cable? 

Edited September 14, 2024 by maxpower

[davidnvh]

4 hours ago, maxpower said:

I'll probably not be able to resist getting one even eventually though it makes no sense for me to get, luckily it being sold out gives me time to think. One thing I feel like I haven't seen discussed yet is the new packaging! Finally the boring regular M11 box is gone and they have made something entirely new. While it's not the same as the M10 box I think it's a huge improvement over the M11 box that they've used so far.

Since I hadn't heard anyone talk about it the only way I found out was this video on YouTube:

Also, it looks like the regular charger is no longer included? Only a USB-C cable? 

But the accessories are truly minimal, they don’t even include the lightning to C cable in my box. 

[Derbyshire Man]

6 hours ago, evikne said:

To me, Leica M - and the D models in particular - is for casual shooting. So I probably would have used it mostly at 18 or 36 MP. But it would have been nice to have the option of higher resolution in cases where I wanted it (and then I could use a tripod if necessary).

I’ve taken about 15,000 shots with my M11P and M11M, I’ve had no issues getting sharp images, handheld at 60 megapixels. Even if I did, post capture reduction to 18/24 megapixel would give exactly the same sharpness as shooting at that resolution in the first place, there’s no magic involved!

[Fred Miranda]

21 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There

I would have been fine if it had had fixed white balance - but it didn’t, it had Auto White Balance - so the camera decided on the colour balance of each image (I only ever shoot DNG). For a big shoot that’s a disaster as you are left having to change the white balance of each image if you want consistent colour. . . . . . AWB usually does quite well, but it doesn’t provide consistent colour over a range of shots. . . . . Hence my problem

Best

Jono

Hi Jono,

Trying to understand the logic here. Why is it a disaster if the output is a DNG file? When bringing your files into Lightroom, you have the "Auto" option, as well as all the white balance presets and manual Kelvin options to apply to one or all images if necessary. I thought having auto white balance for the Leica M60 and M-D Typ 262 was the right decision by Leica, unlike the subsequent D models that require a phone screen to change the setting. That doesn't seem like simplicity to me.  

[pgk]

28 minutes ago, Fred Miranda said:

Hi Jono,

Trying to understand the logic here. Why is it a disaster if the output is a DNG file? When bringing your files into Lightroom, you have the "Auto" option, as well as all the white balance presets and manual Kelvin options to apply to one or all images if necessary. I thought having auto white balance for the Leica M60 and M-D Typ 262 was the right decision by Leica, unlike the subsequent D models that require a phone screen to change the setting. That doesn't seem like simplicity to me.  

I'm sure that Jono will reply, but I would be very, very hesitant about having any camera which cannot use a fixed white balance. Shifting colour in scenes as light changes (even marginally) with autoWB leads to shifts in exposure and colour and as Jono says, this is difficult if not impossible to correct for consistently in post (including with raw files). I have some very specific requirements shooting at times and this is a deal breaker.

[maxpower]

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Imagine if you could set the white balance via the SD card, maybe the name of the SD card or a file on there. Daylight balanced SD card, tungsten balanced SD card.. I admit, not very convenient. I didn't say it was a good idea.

[Olaf_ZG]

Looks like my dealer has one on stock if someone is interested…

[ymc226]

34 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Looks like my dealer has one on stock if someone is interested…

It might not be a big seller.  I just called a Leica Boutique yesterday and they had one available as well without the need for a waitlist.  Excited as this is my first 'D" M camera.

[Fred Miranda]

4 hours ago, pgk said:

I'm sure that Jono will reply, but I would be very, very hesitant about having any camera which cannot use a fixed white balance. Shifting colour in scenes as light changes (even marginally) with autoWB leads to shifts in exposure and colour and as Jono says, this is difficult if not impossible to correct for consistently in post (including with raw files). I have some very specific requirements shooting at times and this is a deal breaker.

Using Auto WB instead of a preset like "Daylight" doesn't affect exposure. White balance settings correct color casts, ensuring natural colors under different lighting.

Jono mentioned in his review, which I enjoyed reading, that the M-D typ 262's Auto WB-only setting was a dealbreaker for him.However, you can always set a white balance preset when importing DNG files in post-processing software, ensuring a consistent color cast, so there's really no downside here. The benefit of Auto WB is that it provides an additional preset option when editing, which is handy if the default presets don't look right..

My main point is that the M60 and M-D models streamline the photographer's workflow by focusing on exposure and composition, avoiding the numerous options on newer D models that often need phone access. While aiming for simplicity, each iteration of these screenless cameras seems to add complexity from the original concept.. IMO, the original "D" models got it right, offering an experience closest to shooting film.

[algrove]

Fred

You make an excellent point. I just always set my M11's to Daylight as my preferred WB setting for consistency. That said since there is no way preview images with the M11D (in a pure use sense) yes just import with daylight even though it was using the default Auto WB setting.

One less thing to change at home before going out for a liberating experience.

So if I do not put in an SD card, it will record to the 256 IN and if I only shoot DNG, then that's what I'll get. Again one less thing to change before going out.

So that leaves just one item I prefer to change from default-highlight metering. Guess I naturally like this as I often shoot monochrom and protecting the highlights is a priority.

 

Edited September 15, 2024 by algrove

[fenykepesz]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Fred Miranda:

My main point is that the M60 and M-D models streamline the photographer's workflow by focusing on exposure and composition, avoiding the numerous options on newer D models that often need phone access. While aiming for simplicity, each iteration of these screenless cameras seems to add complexity from the original concept.. IMO, the original "D" models got it right, offering an experience closest to shooting film.

you know, Fred, my impression is that Leica got with the m11d the best out of two worlds : that's physically tweaking few external buttons at the camera surface, and then virtually adjusting those numerous electronic functions well hidden behind FOTOS.  some of us work primarily or solely with the four 'primitive' access points (time, aperture, ISO, focus) - while others have more time to fiddle with settings, chimp on pics, and more.  hence Leica cleverly satisfies two camps this way !

i myself used that cumbersome FOTOS on my m10d perhaps every third months or so, or when changing time zones, in order to sync its internal clock with the local date & time via my Android phone.  next week when i hopefully will receive my new m11d, i will once in its lifetime adjust those few electronic settings i need (WB, light meter and such), and that's it.  i will likely not need to touch them ever again and will otherwise connect with FOTOS solely to reset the camera clock.

Edited September 15, 2024 by fenykepesz

[evikne]

7 hours ago, Fred Miranda said:

The benefit of Auto WB is that it provides an additional preset option when editing, which is handy if the default presets don't look right..

This is exactly what I have come up with as well. In the past, I often set a custom WB (preferably with a WhiBal or ExpoDisc) before starting the shoot. But now I rather shoot with AWB and take a WB reference shot afterwards. Otherwise, I miss the extra opportunity to see what the camera was thinking (As Shot) at the moment of shooting.

Edited September 15, 2024 by evikne

[kraxel69]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Fred Miranda:

My main point is that the M60 and M-D models streamline the photographer's workflow by focusing on exposure and composition, avoiding the numerous options on newer D models that often need phone access. While aiming for simplicity, each iteration of these screenless cameras seems to add complexity from the original concept.. IMO, the original "D" models got it right, offering an experience closest to shooting film.

let me put it this way, real photographers shouldn't need a cell phone as insurance to take a few pictures 😉

Edited September 15, 2024 by kraxel69

[kkm]

Sounds like a second back dial for WB is missing at the M11-D …

[M11 for me]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Derbyshire Man:

I’ve had no issues getting sharp images, handheld at 60 megapixels

I fully believe you. Here not either. If the correct things (sizes) are compared to each other then the conclusion is clear: There is the same amount of blur out of the 60MPix sensor compare to a sensor with less resolution. Nor is there more noise 🫠

[evikne]

20 minutes ago, kkm said:

Sounds like a second back dial for WB is missing at the M11-D …

White balance requires precise fine tuning. It's impossible to do this on location anyway, so it's better to leave it to something you do in post.

[pgk]

10 hours ago, Fred Miranda said:

Using Auto WB instead of a preset like "Daylight" doesn't affect exposure. White balance settings correct color casts, ensuring natural colors under different lighting.

Try it. As an example shoot a panorama using either autoWB or different WB settings and then try to adjust it and stitch it in post. Occasionally you may be lucky but generally slight shifts in the way the image is recorded will ensure that the end result has inconsistencies - often in skies and areas where colour/exposure matching is critical. To shoot a consistent panorama you really need to set a WB to whatever is reasonable (daylight mostly), shoot manually and hope that the light does not alter throughout the shoot (best on windless days outside).

There would never have been any point having any white balance settings if RAW files were used otherwise. And anything which shifts the way colours reproduce must, by definition, shift exposure.

Edited September 15, 2024 by pgk

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[kkm]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb evikne:

White balance requires precise fine tuning.

I was thinking about the „Analog“ experience 😉 WB is like ISO defined by the film.

[M11 for me]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb pgk:

To shoot a consistent panorama you really need to set a WB to whatever is reasonable (daylight mostly)

Should you not rather set a Kelvin-value rather than "daylight" (or whatever) which is then no precise value either.