Leica M11-D: The camera without a display enters the next round

[Jonsi]

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I like the M11-D (but can't afford it).

But I liked the M10-D better - it seems that if you often change ISO settings the ISO-dial on the back is harder to operate than the ISO-dial on top. Or is this wrong?

 

Can you change ISO settings using the FOTOS App?

Edited September 13, 2024 by Jonsi
Tippfehler

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[Derbyshire Man]

17 minutes ago, Viv said:

For mle, focusing with the M11 is really easy.

I'm 77 years old.

I find focussing really easy on the RF too. As long as the focal point is kept slap bang in the middle of the frame! Focus and recompose can be rather hit and miss as the amount of back focus doing this changes with each lens. Really easy to learn if you stick to a single lens but if you have a few not quite so straight forward, this is where a decent high resolution EVF can help, the visioflex 2 is not really up to the job sadly, the whole magnification thing might be OK for landscape and architecture but a complete buzzkill for portraiture outside of a studio situation with a model paid to be patient!

I do love the RF much more than I thought I would and the look of puzzlement of the average person beholding a M11D has got quite a lot of value to it, as long as you steer clear of ending up justifying the price of entry for what *appears* to be much less!

[hillavoider]

6 hours ago, LUF Admin said:

Folks, this thread is about the M11-D. Not mortgage rates.

Please stay on topic.

Wow so sensitive to a real discussion I can’t believe it, what’s happened to this site 

stay on topic means no critical thought or criticism I see 

my comment had nothing to do with interest rates 

you’ve gone and deleted any criticism of the price 

Edited September 13, 2024 by hillavoider

[Guest]

I was very sceptical of the M11-D when its release was first discussed and I didn't understand why you couldn't just turn off the LCD on the M11. However the more I think about it and read the comments and reviews by others I realise I wan't thinking about it the right way.

I'm new to the M11-P and rangefinders in general and don't have the years of practice in using rangefinders and film cameras that others have. Right now, I need to be able to learn how to use the camera properly, and for that I need to be able to review photos and learn from my mistakes. I am not the intended audience!

For those of you with years of experience of rangefinder focusing and exposure setting I can see why the camera appeals. I just have to practice more to get the level of experience and confidence that the M11-D demands.

[grahamc]

3 hours ago, hillavoider said:

Wow so sensitive to a real discussion I can’t believe it, what’s happened to this site 

stay on topic means no critical thought or criticism I see 

my comment had nothing to do with interest rates 

you’ve gone and deleted any criticism of the price 

Agree, unfortunately seems like the thread is an advertorial rather than a conversation starter      

 

 

Edited September 13, 2024 by grahamc

[M11 for me]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Viv:

For me, focusing with the M11 is really easy.

When I use the Visoflex2 then I still for focussing I use the OVF. I am fully with you. 

I remember only one optical focussing system that was even better than the Leica rangefinder: This was in the 80ies the "fresnel" lens from Canon in their A-1 Model. They called it fresnel . . . and I loved it. 

[Jeff S]

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11 hours ago, marknorton said:

For me, a completely pointless and preposterously expensive camera. The part of the M11 they should be dumping is the clunky and expensive optical viewfinder and rangefinder and replacing both with a state of the art EVF. That might not suit all users but it is just as valid a development direction as removing the rear screen.

After time away from the M enjoying the Nikon Z9 and their newly designed lenses, I came back to my M10 and bought the Visoflex hoping it might renew my enthusiasm for the M. It did, sort of, but it served to underline how irrelevant the rangefinder now is, how the Visoflex is itself below par and how poor the battery life is when you use it. On the other hand, I appreciated the compact camera and lenses compared to the Z monster.

in my opinion, the whole “das Wesentliche” thing is just so much brand positioning nonsense. I have no idea how the M is doing commercially - or Leica for that matter - but a visit to them this year was a pretty disspiriting experience. I feel sure that an M-EVF would open up the M to a much larger user base and to those who say that an M without a “Messuche” is not an M, I say, get over it.

Well, at least we might look forward to your post on the tear down and anatomy of a RF-less M.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

11 hours ago, elmars said:

There will be an EVF-M. Stefan Daniel said so.

Didn’t he qualify that by saying if they determined there was sufficient demand?

I believe he also said at one point that there would always be an RF-based M. 

But then there was the R system.  In the end, the market rules.

Jeff

 

[T25UFO]

7 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Didn’t he qualify that by saying if they determined there was sufficient demand?

I believe he also said at one point that there would always be an RF-based M. 

But then there was the R system.  In the end, the market rules.

Jeff

 

Was the R intended to replace the M?  I can't remember, but if so, then it was a failure.  If the intention was to complement the M, then I suppose it was a partial success for its time, albeit more expensive than its competition.  Leica ownership expense is, of course, a recurring theme.

Leica seems to have a reasonably clear product strategy.  There will always be an M and there will be other models that fit other segments.  You are right about the market ruling, although Leica doesn't always follow the market, the D being an obvious example.

Rangefinder focussing is a whole different subject.  I'm fine up to 50mm but struggle after that; however, with today's sensor size and technology I find cropping (yes, I know it's frowned upon) from 50mm to 75mm is a perfectly acceptable solution.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, T25UFO said:

Was the R intended to replace the M?  

No.  The point was that the R was discontinued based on market/profitability, despite customer expectations that it was a solid component of the Leica product portfolio.  The market dictates.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, T25UFO said:

 You are right about the market ruling, although Leica doesn't always follow the market, the D being an obvious example.

 

Again not my point.  The question is whether Leica determines there is a market (buyers) for their products, of course based on profit and manufacturing requirements.

Jeff

[T25UFO]

46 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

No.  The point was that the R was discontinued based on market/profitability, despite customer expectations that it was a solid component of the Leica product portfolio.  The market dictates.

Jeff

Well, I said I couldn’t remember and your memory is better than mine 🙂

I did buy the R7 but it couldn’t replace my M6 and I’ve stayed with the rangefinder ever since.

Edited September 13, 2024 by T25UFO

[IkarusJohn]

Many of the R lenses are fantastic, presumably as they were less restricted by size of the M mount.

The D series cameras aren’t really about chimping - they’re about not having an LCD, chimping not even being an option and all the distractions of settings.  Unlike @jonoslack, I wasn’t bothered about having fixed white balance on the M60, I liked getting only DNG output and having no options but ISO, focus, aperture and shutter speed directly on the camera.  Sure, this doesn’t suit everyone, but it is all you need to take a photograph - you don’t need focus bracketing, exposure bracketing, content verification, pixel binning, white balance correction or EV adjustment (if you’re in manual).  It was liberating!

With the M10-D, it is the same as the M60, the way I have set it up. Once.  Yes, I could do that with an M10-P or an M11, but they have the LCD.  Removing the LCD creates a discipline.  Perhaps if you started photography in the digital age, this doesn’t make sense.

Surprising we’re going yet again into the MEVF discussion.  For anyone who has a view on this, try the X2D with a V lens - in default settings, it has the same simplicity as the M system, but with an EVF.  Does it take better pictures, well yes, as it has 100MP in medium format with Hasselblad Colour Science; but does it take better pictures because it has an EVF - no.  It’s a truly fabulous camera and if you ignore the size and AF, you get an idea of what an MEVF would be like.

[jonoslack]

16 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Many of the R lenses are fantastic, presumably as they were less restricted by size of the M mount.

The D series cameras aren’t really about chimping - they’re about not having an LCD, chimping not even being an option and all the distractions of settings.  Unlike @jonoslack, I wasn’t bothered about having fixed white balance on the M60,

Hi There

I would have been fine if it had had fixed white balance - but it didn’t, it had Auto White Balance - so the camera decided on the colour balance of each image (I only ever shoot DNG). For a big shoot that’s a disaster as you are left having to change the white balance of each image if you want consistent colour. . . . . . AWB usually does quite well, but it doesn’t provide consistent colour over a range of shots. . . . . Hence my problem

Best

Jono

[IkarusJohn]

11 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There

I would have been fine if it had had fixed white balance - but it didn’t, it had Auto White Balance - so the camera decided on the colour balance of each image (I only ever shoot DNG). For a big shoot that’s a disaster as you are left having to change the white balance of each image if you want consistent colour. . . . . . AWB usually does quite well, but it doesn’t provide consistent colour over a range of shots. . . . . Hence my problem

Best

Jono

Yes, I remember the discussion over fixing white balance.  AWB wasn’t that good with the M9, but I thought it was acceptable with the M60 - a “big shoot” is not a concept I’m familiar with 😀

[jonoslack]

11 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Yes, I remember the discussion over fixing white balance.  AWB wasn’t that good with the M9, but I thought it was acceptable with the M60 - a “big shoot” is not a concept I’m familiar with 😀

AWB is very good these days - but still, there isn’t a ‘correct’ white balance for any shot taken in mixed lighting - only an ‘average’. But the point is that the colour changes from shot to shot, and I don’t like that! Even if it’s a walk around the local Fen. 

[Lev55]

Thank you for the review. @jonoslack did you change the tint in the photos? Is there still a Magenta shift? Thank you very much!

[Olaf_ZG]

I must say that the camera is an absolute beauty. 

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[evikne]

2 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I must say that the camera is an absolute beauty. 

I think maybe not as beautiful as the M10-D, but the second most beautiful. 😉

But all in all, perhaps the most capable D variant so far.

Edited September 14, 2024 by evikne

[hillavoider]

Ok let’s see if this gets deleted too 

Getting shake free, sharp photos on the M11’s 60mp sensor is sometimes difficult even after 3 years of practice and I need the screen to check 

With the M11D, which I like the look of by the way, it could become a nightmare, missing shots all over the place. A 60mp sensor I’ve found is a lot less forgiving then film, actually a huge difference