SL lenses compared to M lenses

[miatadan]

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Since I been in photography, Leica was the ultimate quality especially the M System.

How does the quality of SL lenses compare to current M lenses? I can not afford the APO prime lenses. The SL2S kit I ordered comes with the lower priced Summicron-SL 50mm f/2 ASPH but so far the only 28mm lense is the APO-Summicron SL 28mm f/2 ASPH. This is why I am considering the Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 ASPH. Would prefer SL series 28mm lenses.

Seems there is no affordable 28mm SL prime lenses

Dan

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[LeicaR10]

Miatadan,  You have a good number of choices when it comes to using the SL system and both L and M mount lenses.  I would suggest you determine the primary genre(s) of photography that you wish to use either L or M lenses.  Once you do that, it will be up to you how envision using the 28mm lens, plus the type of rendering.  But first, there is little difference between the SL Apo lenses and SL non-Apo lenses.  You can look at different reviews by such notables as the "Mathphotographer" on You Tube and others.  Next, you have choices with various third party lens manufactureres such as Sigma, Panasonic, etc..   If you are looking at using M lenses, again, more choices depending how you wish the photograph to render.  You have a number of Leica M 28mm lenses to chose and other third party lens makers.  

Also, there is only 1 SL 28mm Apo Summicron lens made by Leica.  You can find many in mint condition used online from such stores as Leica Store Miami, Leica Store San Francisco, Camera West (has several), KEH, or Leica Classic Store in Austria and so on.  You can save 25% buying mint used lenses with a written guarantee (very important) if buying used.  The same holds true for many used M 28mm Elmarit lenses.  This lens in particular is excellent, great color, little field curvature, little to no CA etc.  There are a good number of reviews as well.  A good number of photographers use the 28 Elmarit-M for landscape and street photography and works most excellent on the SL2-S.  

I am certain others will chime in with ideas for you.  But at the end of the day, it gets down to what you need and how much you wish to spend.  Only you can make those decisions.

Last, here is a link to a site that will give you a good idea how the different Leica M, R and SL lenses render.  It should help you.  r/ Mark

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lenses?lens=Leica 

[jaapv]

SL lenses will be optically better  than equivalent M lenses as M lenses are restricted in size by the presence of an optical viewfinder.

However, optical quality is only part of the equation.

[S Maclean]

Having both I'll say both are incredible.  SL does have better overall optics, but not necesarily a better image. That depends on what your style of photography is.  

 

M has a more "distinct" character. SL has more clarity. It is also true that the SL tends to produce more crisp images because of the autofocus and the different focus modes.  Of course it is up to the photographer to focus right, but it is my experience that, often, when using an M lens on the SL3 I am left with tighter images.  Even when the image on the M11  was seemingly in focus and correct, the "little" bit of variance against the autofocus is sometimes surprising.

I have been an M shooter for years, and relied on Hasselblad medium format for the times when the image needed to be as perfect as possible....since i got the SL3 I am have been drifting to using the sl3 more and more when I am looking for results.

For walking around the M is still my favorite experience.  For ultimate detail Hasselblad is still a better performer.  But most of the times one wants a comprimise between those two. THe best possible image with the easiest portability and weather control etc.  SL is that and more.

But lenses....they are all great.  I'll tale a 90 pre ashperical M for female portraits, I'll take thge SL 90 for character portraits. I'tt take the sl 50 lux for character portraits and studio. the lux M (close focus) for better effect and more spontaneity on street and urban.  21 SE M lens has been one of my most effective tools for street, cityscape etc....the sl apo 21 blows it out of the water...mind you, I can shoot the m 21 from the hip, in a second, using pre focusing or hyperfocus and I get it right 80% of the time.  The SL.....well, You have to hold that camera....

[3D-Kraft.com]

Sorry for this (SL-)beginner question but I am not yet using SL system.

Do the cameras in the SL system also use such a thin filter glas stack and optimized microlens design in front of the sensor like the M-cameras in order to cope with lenses from the analog film era (having their rear lens element close to the sensor)?

What I want to say:
It is not just a question about the quality of the M-lenses. It is also a question of how well they harmonize with the SL system, especially when we talk about lenses with focal lengths below 50mm.

And as others said before: It is also not just a question of technical performance. It is also a question, if you look for a particular look / character. In this respect there is no general answer to your question. If you are looking for Summilux-M like lenses with a good price-performance ratio, I would also check some reviews of the Thypoch lenses.

[jaapv]

Leica designed the SL series to be able to work well and be retro-compatible with M lenses which means for instance elliptical microlenses and IR filter specified with M lenses in mind. However as the camera is meant to perform optimally with L lenses, the M cameras will always hold an edge. For many M lenses, though, the differences are minimal to none. Having said that, L lenses as such will always outperform M lenses due to fewer design constraints caused by size restrictions. 
Personally I will use M lenses happily on my SL cameras and mostly find that the character and rendering are unimpaired But then, I am no pixel-peeper. 

[Luke_Miller]

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52 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Personally I will use M lenses happily on my SL cameras and mostly find that the character and rendering are unimpaired But then, I am no pixel-peeper. 

That has been my experience as well.  Initially I worried about how my 21 & 24mm Elmarit-M ASPH lenses would perform on my SL bodies.  If you really look for it at 100% view the extreme corners are a bit softer than on an M.  Interestingly the 21 is better in that regard than the 24.

[Chris Nebard]

When Peter Karbe says that the best cameras in the world for M lenses are the M and SL range of cameras, then, as he is a renowned optical engineer, I take him at his word. I’m sure that the 28mm M-Elmarit mentioned by the OP will be more than adequate on an SL. Even if there is a slight, minimal fall off in sharpness towards the edges, this would not impact my own photography in real life. Even if it did, I’d just use the superb Sigma 24mm f3.5 for any occasion that demanded super sharpness across the frame. There are more important things to a lens than ultimate sharpness - in my use. I actually bought my SL2-S because the sensor is designed to accommodate adapted M lenses. My 50 M-Summicron and 75 Summarit work beautifully. I fully understand that the SL APO lenses may well be peerless, optically, but my M lenses certainly retain their respective characteristics on the SL2-S and they are more than sharp enough. Again, I respect those whose opinion is that the SL range needs to be used with SL lenses, or you’re missing out. I actually think the opposite: that to ignore the SL Alliance and its vast range of lenses, or to not use M lenses, is to restrict the fantastic versatility of an SL. All these lenses, M, SL, Alliance, are meant to be used on an SL.  And, anyway, what great first world problems to have. 
Whatever you choose, enjoy it. 

[LocalHero1953]

Two issues in M lens design that are often overlooked.

• M lenses must work with both analogue and digital cameras. The M design must include correction for optical distortion aberrations which, for L-mount lenses, can easily be corrected by digital camera bodies and raw converters.
• Conversely, M lenses are designed for manual focusing, so do not need the thin light optical elements required for fast auto focus by L-mount lenses.

I suppose the finest lens should have neither constraint: it would be a manually focused lens with distortion correction in software. 

Edited November 6, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[Leicaboy Norway]

I haven't tested this but the Summilux-M 50mm asph is brilliant on my SL2. 

I also have the Summicron Apo 35 and 24-90 and have used them too. The bargain is the 50mm 1.8 lumix. Not  a whole lot of difference between these four lenses. The summilux has that extra character, the Apo 35 has that sharpness, which you dont really notice before zooming in.

 

The 24-90 is too big for me, but it's good. I also have other m lenses but I dont love focus peaking with the SL2, I mean it's okay but I hit focus faster on rangefinder at 1.4 than on my SL2. I'd prefer a focus confirmation

[studiotristan]

I think theres one really big elephant in the room no one really talks about and thats the color shifts in the corners on M glass combined with the SL. 

I'm working professionally with Leica and if I compare a 28 or even a 50mm SL lens with the M equivalent then you have a greater vignette of course but also blueish color shifts on the corners. 

You could also compare the same lens on an SL and an M body. 

I'm sure a lot of photographers doesnt even realize but if you take a pic of a white wall you clearly see it. 

That means for professional work or studio shoots its just not usable.… 

 

And a little fun fact, my Canon R3 works way better with M lenses. 

Edited May 25 by studiotristan

[LD_50]

On 8/30/2024 at 8:59 PM, miatadan said:

Since I been in photography, Leica was the ultimate quality especially the M System.

How does the quality of SL lenses compare to current M lenses? I can not afford the APO prime lenses. The SL2S kit I ordered comes with the lower priced Summicron-SL 50mm f/2 ASPH but so far the only 28mm lense is the APO-Summicron SL 28mm f/2 ASPH. This is why I am considering the Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 ASPH. Would prefer SL series 28mm lenses.

Seems there is no affordable 28mm SL prime lenses

Dan

I don’t know that the M system has been “ultimate quality” unless you are prioritizing size and weight over optics. The best of every system (Canon, Nikon, Sony) are all really good (and really expensive) but no one really matches the size and weight proposition of the M lenses on FF sensors. Also, the best optical M lenses cost as much or more than the best SL lenses. As others have noted, there are more “character” lenses for M than SL, but you can also shoot those on the SL.

I own a 50 Summilux ASPH M lenses and the 50 SL Summilux. Although the M lens has a unique look that I like for portraits and is tiny, I rarely shoot it because the SL lens is so good. I also own a 35 Summilux ASPH M lenses and the 35SL APO and there is no comparison for me, the SL lens wins in every way other than size and weight. 

ReidReviews has a lot of tests showing various 28mm options on a few of the SL cameras, including an R lens. You may want to review his findings. I don’t believe he’s tested the 28SL APO lens.