SL3 vs M10-R color and image quality

[lldd]

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I am currently shooting an M10-R with a 50 lux.  There's nothing I don't like about this combo, except that I occasionally need/prefer autofocus, and need something I can take out in inclement weather (Seattle rain 8-9 months of the year).  Has anyone shot or seen images from these two cameras side by side and can comment on their comparative color output and general image quality?  While I do shoot DNGs only, it would make the workflow considerably easier if they are at least close.  I would be looking to use the APO Summicrons on the SL3.

[Photoworks]

4 hours ago, lldd said:

Seattle rain 8-9 months of the year

I would move! 🫣

well, you are putting a few different information on this question.

I had the M10-R and replaced it with an M11.  I have noticed that the sensor offers greater colors in the M11, especially at 64 ISO.

The SL3 has a BSI sensor similar to M11 and Q3. They are streamlining the offering in 60mp sensors.

The 3 cameras share the sensor with different options and results. They are all capable in different ways, meaning they have their own image look. 

The SL3 is an upgrade over the M10-R sensor, great in color, dynamic range, and high iso. That said these cameras are all evolutionary to preview models.

SL3 with SL-APO lenses is the best combination for image quality. But is that all you want? I love the Summilux lenses for the look can can give me wide open, none of the APO lenses will do that.

M lenses are not made for rainy days, and that is the same if you mount them on an SL3. But every day carry, the SL3 with apo summicron-SL is too big for me.

I would try it out, SL2 and SL2-s are still great cameras and many of us will use them for many years to come.

[Manicouagan1]

I have both a M10R and a SL3.   The slightly improved dynamic range of the SL3 and the increased resolution yield files that are a bit more flexible to work with in Lightroom.  With proper choice of metering pattern, it is far easier to yield files with no blown highlights than with an M camera.  Where the M cameras shine is the ability to control the range of sharp focus.    I find the SL3 autofocus is a bit hard to the in predict.  The in-focus range may be concentrated in front or behind the focusing target.  With and M camera you control the focus point with no computer intervention.  

[Leslie22]

The in-focus range may be concentrated in front or behind the focusing target.  With and M camera you control the focus point with no computer intervention

 

I use M lens … problem ? Solved

[jaapv]

6 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I would move! 🫣

well, you are putting a few different information on this question.

I had the M10-R and replaced it with an M11.  I have noticed that the sensor offers greater colors in the M11, especially at 64 ISO.

The SL3 has a BSI sensor similar to M11 and Q3. They are streamlining the offering in 60mp sensors.

The 3 cameras share the sensor with different options and results. They are all capable in different ways, meaning they have their own image look. 

The SL3 is an upgrade over the M10-R sensor, great in color, dynamic range, and high iso. That said these cameras are all evolutionary to preview models.

SL3 with SL-APO lenses is the best combination for image quality. But is that all you want? I love the Summilux lenses for the look can can give me wide open, none of the APO lenses will do that.

M lenses are not made for rainy days, and that is the same if you mount them on an SL3. But every day carry, the SL3 with apo summicron-SL is too big for me.

I would try it out, SL2 and SL2-s are still great cameras and many of us will use them for many years to come.

According to Leica the M lenses are not formally weathersealed, but are quite weather resistant due to narrow tolerances and lack of electronic components.

[LeicaR10]

IIdd,   I see you already have sage advice from previous posts.  I use to spend months in the rainy season in Seattle doing photography for clients.  I see a number of post suggest the SL3.  I would suggest another route, get a SL2-S.  Reasons are the color of the SL2-S with its BSI sensor and color closely matches the M10-R.  It does excellent in low light with very low noise.  Its weather resistant and very stable relative to firmware; no bugs.  Last, the SL2-S is selling at remarkable low prices and easy to acquire.  Leica has a promotion with a price reduction, a Leica M to L adapter and rear screen protector now with its reduced price too. (Check Leica Store San Francisco, etc)  Frankly until the SL3 gets the reported bugs resolved, I would pass on the SL3.  Plus, do you really need 60 Mps?  I make 4 ft X 6 ft prints with no problem with the SL2-S.  Last, the money you save buying a SL2-S vs SL3 might get you a mint SL APO Sumicron whatever with the savings.  Just my 2 cents.  r/ Mark

[Stuart Richardson]

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In terms of general image quality, the SL3 (or SL2) with APO Summicron SL is going to outperform the M10-R with the 50mm Summilux ASPH. This is not to say people cannot prefer the M10R and 50mm ASPH, they might, but when it comes to measurable technical outcomes, the APO Summicron SL is quite a ways ahead. It is much sharper across the frame. If I recall from my testing, it is sharper across the frame at f2 than the 50mm Summilux ASPH is at any aperture. This is just how good the APO Summicrons are...they are nearly diffraction limited it seems. The other big advantage they have is no chromatic aberration, and in particular no longitudinal chromatic aberration. So that means that there are no color shifts in your out of focus areas. The 50mm 1.4 Summilux ASPH has a tendency to shift green/magenta in front and behind the point of focus. It is pretty good about not having a lot of aberrations at the point of focus, but if you have tree branches in the background with light in them, for example, they might have a reddish cast to them. The APO Summicrons do not have this. It can be subtle, but not always. The overall impression is of incredibly pure colors and lots of snap and 3d effect.

The price you pay for this is a bigger and heavier lens as compared to the M lens. For me at least, that was absolutely a price worth paying. I have both lenses and never use the 50mm Summilux ASPH on the SL2.

[Jeff S]

I have the M10-R (and M10 Monochrom) and SL2. The M lenses stay on the M (including 50 Summilux ASPH), and the SL2 is primarily used with the SL 24-90.  I can make (typically moderately sized) prints of sufficient quality (including colors) with all of my gear, provided I do my job well. The systems are entirely different from an operational/feature standpoint, and serve different use cases. Focus aids and stabilization (both IBIS and OIS) can also help ensure optimal results when using the bigger and more versatile SL system. I’ve also used my M gear in light rain without issue, using common sense handling, for decades.  The SL system, of course, is more robust when situations warrant.  Different approaches and shooting experiences.

Jeff

Edited August 28, 2024 by Jeff S

[SrMi]

The availability of IBIS on SL3 can be another IQ differentiator. For static scenes, IBIS allows longer exposures and therefore better IQ. On the other hand, IBIS may contribute to blur in corners when shooting with wide lenses.

[lldd]

Thanks for all of the helpful feed back.  I'll be able to test out and SL3 in the next few days to assist in a decision.  The SL2-s is an interesting idea, but this if mostly for landscape and I'm somewhat concerned about shooting with 24 mp.  I did have the original SL and loved its output.  The other issue with the SL2-s is the grip.  I'm 6'4' with large hands and my fingertips jam into the body because the grip isn't deep enough.  I've heard the SL3 is slightly better in this regard, so will test once I get my hands on it.  And to be honest, sometimes I wonder if the R5ii or Z8 might be a better choice for landscape.  

[SrMi]

45 minutes ago, lldd said:

Thanks for all of the helpful feed back.  I'll be able to test out and SL3 in the next few days to assist in a decision.  The SL2-s is an interesting idea, but this if mostly for landscape and I'm somewhat concerned about shooting with 24 mp.  I did have the original SL and loved its output.  The other issue with the SL2-s is the grip.  I'm 6'4' with large hands and my fingertips jam into the body because the grip isn't deep enough.  I've heard the SL3 is slightly better in this regard, so will test once I get my hands on it.  And to be honest, sometimes I wonder if the R5ii or Z8 might be a better choice for landscape.  

Why would you think R5II or Z8 are a better choice for landscape? SL3 has higher resolution (less aliasing), probably better DR (though R5II and Z8 have sufficient), and access to excellent APO lenses. LPC is a suitable stand-in for shift lenses (smaller angles), but you must use Adobe software.

[lldd]

Easier to purchase (in stock), wider lens selection, price/value, etc.  Plus I'm in the middle of a months long attempt to get the loose baseplate fixed on my M10-R.  I really have no desire to ever need Leica repair service again.  I already skipped the M11 because of this (and to my eye the M10-R colors are better).

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, lldd said:

Easier to purchase (in stock), wider lens selection, price/value, etc.  Plus I'm in the middle of a months long attempt to get the loose baseplate fixed on my M10-R.  I really have no desire to ever need Leica repair service again.  I already skipped the M11 because of this (and to my eye the M10-R colors are better).

Those are all valid points, but they do not pertain to landscape photography per se:

1 hour ago, lldd said:

And to be honest, sometimes I wonder if the R5ii or Z8 might be a better choice for landscape.

 

[lldd]

Ah, but they do if you can get one in hand to take the picture!  I get it, I prefer the Leica colors and rendering as a starting place to working with raw files.  But one does wonder why to APO 50 cron is over eight times the price of a Z 50 1.8.  The haptics and function/feel of the M10-R are important to me.  Much less so for a landscape camera that one drags through the woods and weather.  We'll see what happens when I can test the SL3.

Edited August 29, 2024 by lldd

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, lldd said:

Easier to purchase (in stock), wider lens selection, price/value, etc.  Plus I'm in the middle of a months long attempt to get the loose baseplate fixed on my M10-R.  I really have no desire to ever need Leica repair service again.  I already skipped the M11 because of this (and to my eye the M10-R colors are better).

L-mount has a wider selection of AF lenses over Canon RF, don’t they? 

Canon’s sensors are not only lower res than the SL3, they also have AA-filters. Granted, Canon’s AA filters are the least noticeable out there, but for landscape, I don’t like them.

Versus Sony, the Leica advantage is the camera itself — IP-rated weather sealing, haptics/design, and a far superior menu interface, IMO.

But if you don’t trust Leica repair times (for which no one would blame you), this is a wasted exercise.

[LeicaR10]

lldd,  Your Post #10 concerning the grip of the SL2-S.  You might try the both the SL2 and SL2-S for grip.  Like you, I have very large hands.  I had to pass on the SL3 albeit lighter and slightly more compact, the grip for me was too close to the lens and cramped.  The other issue with the loose M10-R base plate, you might call Don Goldberg at DAG Camera repair and ask his advice.  He should be able to fix your right up.  Just do a search for DAG Camera Repair and call him.  I send all my out of warranty M lenses for CLA's when needed or rangefinder adjustments etc.  He is fast and reliable and honest.  Last, I only use the SL2 and variant for landscape photography.  Never an issue with harsh weather environments and most important, my clients like the results and vote with their wallets.  I am certain you will decide what is best for you in the end.  r/ Mark

[lldd]

8 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

lldd,  Your Post #10 concerning the grip of the SL2-S.  You might try the both the SL2 and SL2-S for grip.  Like you, I have very large hands.  I had to pass on the SL3 albeit lighter and slightly more compact, the grip for me was too close to the lens and cramped.  The other issue with the loose M10-R base plate, you might call Don Goldberg at DAG Camera repair and ask his advice.  He should be able to fix your right up.  Just do a search for DAG Camera Repair and call him.  I send all my out of warranty M lenses for CLA's when needed or rangefinder adjustments etc.  He is fast and reliable and honest.  Last, I only use the SL2 and variant for landscape photography.  Never an issue with harsh weather environments and most important, my clients like the results and vote with their wallets.  I am certain you will decide what is best for you in the end.  r/ Mark

Thanks for the insights and suggestions.  The M10-R is under warranty and went to Leica.  They fixed the baseplate, then sent the camera back to me having chipped the paint on the trim surrounding the back screen.  They also adjusted the rangefinder for some reason.  IT went back to Leica.  Camera came back with the rangefinder completely out of alignment, so now they have it for the third time.  It is on its way back to me now, having flown a total of 18,000 miles to fix a baseplate (and to twice repair the repair).  And it's taken the entire summer.  I don't need to go through this again with any camera, but it seems the SL line has been a bit more robust than the M line in this regard.  

I'll take your advice and pay attention to the grip on the SL3 once I get it in hand.  The warranty is almost up, so in the future I'll reach out to Don as a first step in resolving any future issues.

[Jeff S]

Don fixed Leica NJ screw-ups for me over a decade ago; have used him exclusively since for M work.  Better and more reliable, quicker, and less expensive.

Jeff

Edited August 30, 2024 by Jeff S

[LeicaR10]

lldd,  Wow!  That is a lot of frequent flyer miles.  Perhaps you should ask Leica for either the miles or points.  All kidding aside, usually Leica gets it right on the second round trip.  I had similar issue with a M11 (long gone).  I learned long ago to always take photographs of the gear (front, back, top, bottom) before shipping it.  It also happened to a SL 24-90 lens, good thing I had the photographs as I got the lens back with the barrel edge badly dented.  My shipping photographs caused them to go back and check the shipping department video and found the lens was dropped, yet it was shipped with a dented barrel.  I proved my case and wound up with a new SL 24-90.   I believe you have a 1 year warranty on repairs with Leica (might just warranty the repair of the repair, of the repair, in your case)...but I would check.  Then, you have DAG for after warranty work.  Last, I would still press for the frequent flyer miles or points....Happy Labor Day!   r/ Mark

Edited August 31, 2024 by LeicaR10

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