Why is a m10-d (or any other-d version) so special?

[Olaf_ZG]

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Reading about the desire of a 11d, I wonder what is so special?

I do understand the monochrom, but wonder about the benefits of a -d, especially as I sometimes check quickly on light ratios on image.

Could you explain it? Thanks.

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[a.noctilux]

Film experience with digital files.

Very good grip !

SNOBBERY maybe.

[Olaf_ZG]

@Al Brown, @a.noctiluxthough I appreciate your humor/feedback, I am really curious. For sure many will say as well a monochrom isn’t needed.

[a.noctilux]

My last adventure with M-D, dusty sensor discovered too late

 

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I think for people who are used to using film M cameras, there is nothing closer. It also completely stops the "take a photo and look at the screen" behavior that many/most of us experience at one time or another. It is really all about the experience of use. If that is not the kind of thing that motivates you, then it is probably not useful for you.

[darylgo]

Ok, I’ll give it a try however it’s best to have one in hand.  
 

It’s not easily understood except by a few.  It needs to be experienced.  Or as Al aptly posted “ has incredible surprise potential”. 
 

A film camera experience with all the benefits of a digital file.  
 

 

[pegelli]

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59 minutes ago, darylgo said:

A film camera experience with all the benefits of a digital file.

To really do that you need to send the memory card to a shop who will then WeTransfer the files back to you after a couple of days, or maybe better, send them to you on a CD/DVD 😁

Edited August 17, 2024 by pegelli

[evikne]

For some reason, I often feel like I have to defend or justify wanting a “D”. For me, it's almost all about the grip, as @a.noctilux mentions. And it has certainly nothing to do with me wanting to force myself not to chimp or anything like that.

But to be able to buy such a camera I'll probably have to wait for an inheritance or something, and by that time the latest model is probably called M12-D, or something with an even higher number.

[patrickcolpron]

5 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Reading about the desire of a 11d, I wonder what is so special?

I do understand the monochrom, but wonder about the benefits of a -d, especially as I sometimes check quickly on light ratios on image.

Could you explain it? Thanks.

I have an M10-D and I have no desire for an M11-D.

For me it is strictly and solely to focus on photo making in the moment as opposed to camera settings, chimping or using live view, just having a camera that is a tool to make photos and nothing else makes me both more productive and creative.

I have no desire for an M11-D because the M10-D has an integrated thumb rest and the iso iso dial is located where I can see it at a glance when looking at my shutter speed, aperture and focus distance.

The M10-D is to me, the optimum in camera design for street photography plus, I get to make about 24 photos with an M10-D before filling the buffer, needless to say, I seldom have a buffer full issue. I never miss a shot, it's great.

The M10-D looks damn good plus feels great in my hands, that too adds to the pleasure of making photos. 
 

Just like the Monochrom, I mean c'mon a digital camera with a black and white sensor!! You either get it or you don't. The M Monochrom is a niche product, so it the digital M "D" variant, a smaller niche.
 

I just wish Leica would make a Monochrom black paint M "D" and Chrome "D" monochrom camera variant at one point, then... I'd probably get one in each finish.

 

Anyhoo, it is one of those blue pill, red pill scenario. You either get it and want it, or you don't but once you experience it, there is no going back.

Edited August 17, 2024 by patrickcolpron
Red pill, blue pill...

[M11 for me]

If you accept

- that you do not constantly change settings other than ISO, aperture or time (even though you still have a thumb wheel plus the button on top that will allow you to do something: Anyway with the M11-D according to what we see in the leaked documents)

- you normally do not chimp anyway

- you like the the ultimate "reduce to max"

then there is definitely no need for anything else than a D. And if you still want to control a photograph or you want after all change other settings than what the buttons allow you to do then you have the Fotos App. 

Maybe a similar question would be if you need a zoom lens or if fix focus lenses will do. Before we bought our M cameras we all agreed already that we need no zoom lenses when buying an M.

==> Now please just do the next little step with the D and you will see that you miss nothing . . .

. . . and if you think that the D is reduced too much then allow it a Visoflex2.

Edited August 17, 2024 by M11 for me

[Robert Blanko]

My thoughts about a „D“ version are as follows:

I have taken thousands of photos with my digital Ms, but very very rarely used the screen. If I used Liveview for e.g. UWW photos, I used the Visoflex, as in practice the reflections on the internal display are too high for proper control, anyway. Thus, no display needed insofar.

Apart from that, I essentially use the display maybe twice per year for setting summer time or winter time, respectively. The gist of an M camera is in my understanding that all necessary settings for taking a photo can be adjusted by the mechanical dials. Thus, no display would be needed insofar, if you could attach a visoflex or connect to a smartphone to set summer time, winter time and the settings that you set once at the beginning when unpacking your M.

The great advantage I expect from an M is the significantly increased robustness. You don’t have to care about a fragile display on the back and you don’t need bulky and ugly covering solutions. On top of that, as Evikne mentioned, the handling / grip might be improved.

I would love an M. However, I fear the an M11-D could not be satisfying in view of the still not resolved freezing issues.

[ramarren]

I had the M-D 262. It brought me exactly what I wanted: an M4-2 essentially but with a digital sensor instead of film. It felt great in the hand, only shot raw image files, etc. 

Sadly, it got sold when I needed money for other things—one of the few cameras that I've regretted selling. It was eventually replaced with an M10 Monochrom and then an M10-R but no camera with menus and an LCD display really replaces the experience of using the M-D 262. 

G

[IkarusJohn]

I started photography with a bellows camera - the ISO was set for the film, you set the aperture for the sun levels at 1/125 shutter and assessed the distance for focus.  Once you got over the very simple technical side of things, you thought about the image and nothing else.  The Nikon FE & FM cameras that followed (for me) had the added benefits of lens changing, focus assist and exposure meters, but the concept remained the same - you looked at the scene unfolding and thought about the image.

My first real digital was the M9 - consitent with the approach above, but with white balance and lots of other settings thrown in (bracketing, EC, Auto ISO etc).  There were other things to think about; things which had nothing to do with what was going on around me.  A distraction.

When the M60 came along, it answered my concerns.  I thought it was brilliant, despite the mockery here.  No JPegs, no settings other than the 4 needed to take an image.  As a special edition, it was also priced well, but didn’t sell well at all.  I got mine at a significant discount, especially considering the list price of the camera and lens, taking no account of the lovely stainless steel finish.  I even got a spare leather half-case/strap from Leica, and used the camera a lot.

Eventually, I sold it for a variety of reasons (including the fact it was an underlying M(240), which I couldn’t warm to), and regretted it.  The M-D didn’t appeal, and lept at the M10-D (having discussed the concept with Stefan Daniel while the camera was beig developed).  It’s a non-seller for me. I appreciate that some find the WiFi and EVF unattractive, and I wish it didn’t have the thumb wheel and buttons on the topdeck and front, but it is the closest to the M60 in a form I like.

So, why like a disabled camera when I could ust ignore what I don’t like?  I guess I could have just bought an M10-P or R or just the vanilla version, but I like the form factor of noscreen and not having the distraction of lots of functions - I think about the scene before me, rather than the settings on my camera.

[newtoleica]

16 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

So, why like a disabled camera when I could ust ignore what I don’t like?  I guess I could have just bought an M10-P or R or just the vanilla version, but I like the form factor of noscreen and not having the distraction of lots of functions - I think about the scene before me, rather than the settings on my camera

I use a 10-P and have used a 10-D in the past. My working practice with all cameras is set the ISO, set the Aperture and go look for images. Like you I don’t bother with any other stuff ever. My single gripe for the D was the loss of the on/off around the shutter. Faffing with the rear dial was too slow, although I loved everything else. I think an ideal camera for me would be a 10-D Monochrom version without a rear dial on off. Although I reminisce about the 10-D I think the P version is a better camera in use for me and I’ll probably add a 10 Monochrom in due course. I also have a Q2 for casual use, mostly in MF mode, set ISO and aperture… 

Edited August 20, 2024 by newtoleica

[Mr.Kite]

The M10-D is - like it or not - still a digital camera. Every digital camera controlled by a computer. The idea to control this very computer not by the help of a screen but with some cryptic commands or an external app is peculiar to say the least. But not as peculiar as the thought that such a procedere would lead to a better photographic experience and/ or better pictures.

But anyway, different strokes for different folks, i guess.

Edited August 20, 2024 by Mr.Kite

[newtoleica]

6 hours ago, Mr.Kite said:

The M10-D is - like it or not - still a digital camera. Every digital camera controlled by a computer. The idea to control this very computer not by the help of a screen but with some cryptic commands or an external app is peculiar to say the least. But not as peculiar as the thought that such a procedere would lead to a better photographic experience and/ or better pictures.

But anyway, different strokes for different folks, i guess.

Nothing cryptic about manually setting an ISO and aperture and pressing the shutter release…. All M Digital’s can be controlled that way. Bizarrely all other M Digital’s have a bunch of stuff on them that mostly isn’t necessary or is ‘set once and forget’. 

[IkarusJohn]

My first digital camera was a Canon G9.  I never found a way to set the aperture.

[Crem]

On 8/17/2024 at 2:30 AM, Olaf_ZG said:

Reading about the desire of a 11d, I wonder what is so special?

I do understand the monochrom, but wonder about the benefits of a -d, especially as I sometimes check quickly on light ratios on image.

Could you explain it? Thanks.

I currently own a M10-D that I'm selling. For me it's special in a number of ways:

1. The obvious no chimp-ing due to lack of screen. There is definitely a bit of that film like surprised of downloading the photos off the SD card and not knowing how well they turned out.

2. To me the film lever and handling are better than a regular M10 and M11.

3. In general it forces you to work slower since you can't quickly change various settings like singe/continuous mode, minimum shutter speed for auto ISO, etc. I tend to shoot the M10-D in full manual or shutter speed priority. With a lot of digital cameras I'm more likely to use aperture priority since I can quickly change the min shutter speed.

4. It had a relatively low sales volume and can be tough to find. Thus there is the FOMO feeling of wanting to try one when you can find one.

Edited August 24, 2024 by Crem

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[IkarusJohn]

On 8/25/2024 at 8:23 AM, Crem said:

I tend to shoot the M10-D in full manual or shutter speed priority

How does shutter speed priority work?

[Crem]

3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

How does shutter speed priority work?

What I meant is auto ISO with a set shutter speed on the top dial. What would you call this mode with fixed shutter speed, fixed aperture, and floating ISO? 

The main point I was trying to get at is that it's one of the biggest differences between how I use a screen-less M10-D vs a M10 with a screen. Using a screen I can quickly change this setting based on subject matter and lighting, but with the M10-D it's too inconvenient to change due to how long it takes to connect to the phone app.