Tirpitz666 Posted January 7 Share #121 Posted January 7 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) @Slender sent a PM 🙂 To me the less I have to tweak the colors OOC, the better, if the starting point it's already something that usually I like quite a bit, it can save me a ton of time in post. Of course every look can be in theory replicated, the point is always how much time/effort it costs. Edited January 7 by Tirpitz666 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 7 Posted January 7 Hi Tirpitz666, Take a look here Anyone still buying into/investing in the S system at this point?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stuart Richardson Posted January 7 Share #122 Posted January 7 I did not find the S3 to look much like the S006 at all...the S007 was closer, but all three were different. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einst_Stein Posted January 8 Share #123 Posted January 8 48 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said: I did not find the S3 to look much like the S006 at all...the S007 was closer, but all three were different. For people prefer S006's color rendering, go ahead buy S006. It's much cheaper and is authentic S006 rendering. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted January 8 Share #124 Posted January 8 (edited) Thank you so much for the kindness sharing DNG. Its a very interesting way to see how it does handle... and dispells the myth of the 16bits files as apparently none of the cameras have it... not that it matters too much to be honest... As for the resolution difference it is a big surprise as it doesn't seem too dramatic of a gap between 37.8 and 63.9MP 🫣... as viewd on a 5K screen Edited January 8 by Slender Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted January 8 Share #125 Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Slender said: Thank you so much for the kindness sharing DNG. Its a very interesting way to see how it does handle... and dispells the myth of the 16bits files as apparently none of the cameras have it... not that it matters too much to be honest... As for the resolution difference it is a big surprise as it doesn't seem too dramatic of a gap between 37.8 and 63.9MP 🫣... as viewd on a 5K screen It is not. The dramatic difference is the 50mm APO Summicron SL vs the 70mm 2.5 Summarit or the mirror and phase detect vs contrast detect and stabilization. Not to say the S is not great, just that those things really made more of a difference from the S006 to S3. I often found the SL2 was sharper than the S3 because the lenses were sharper (especially across the frame, as they have very little field curvature while the 70mm has a ton) and focused more accurately and there was no vibration from the mirror. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted January 8 Share #126 Posted January 8 5 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said: It is not. The dramatic difference is the 50mm APO Summicron SL vs the 70mm 2.5 Summarit or the mirror and phase detect vs contrast detect and stabilization. Not to say the S is not great, just that those things really made more of a difference from the S006 to S3. I often found the SL2 was sharper than the S3 because the lenses were sharper (especially across the frame, as they have very little field curvature while the 70mm has a ton) and focused more accurately and there was no vibration from the mirror. I have to say I did notice the field curvature on your shots with the 70. But to be honest with you It almost looked like a mis-aligmenent of the lens as it seems more pronounced on one side of the image than the other? Maybe?? My intent is to do lots of tripod work for landscape or some studio/outdoor editorial portrait/fashon with flash work... on that later part the field curvature of the 70 doesnt matter much but CS shutter will compared to my SL2/M10r... Again I realise the crazy potential of IBIS and getting the same sort of money on SL primes as an option... My SL2 is very speedy for my day to day paid commercial work with its 24-90, the M10R has incredible potential for slow and careful photography as well when used properly BUT... But there is just something about the color, the robustness of the files (and the camera seemingly), the perfect blend of classic/modern look of the lenses... it is calling me. I like the SL2 EVF a lot but in sunny condition it is not perfect, the colors and contrast are sometimes weird and the battery life annoys me a lot. I fell in love with the look reading Leica S magazine https://s-magazine.photography/ceemes/en/home.html David Farkas reviews https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/04/the-definitive-guide-to-leica-s-lenses/ and this blog using s006 with a mix of leica and contax lenses https://jipvankuijk.nl/leica-s-e-typ-006-seven-years-later/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted January 8 Share #127 Posted January 8 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 55 minutes ago, Slender said: I have to say I did notice the field curvature on your shots with the 70. But to be honest with you It almost looked like a mis-aligmenent of the lens as it seems more pronounced on one side of the image than the other? Maybe?? Leica checked the lens and pronounced it to be fine. They did the same thing with the 30-90mm. I think it is more Iceland than the lens in this case, as it is an environment where the detail is often far away and yet equidistant, so field curvature is really noticeable. In places with trees or buildings or suburban environments, it is harder to see. Suffice it to say I learned to work around it, and I made a lot of use of the 120mm and 45mm which had less of it. And I am certainly not trying to talk you out of it. I used the S006 for seven years and I still think it was the best digital camera I ever had (in comparison to its utility, durability, robustness, color and quality in comparison to what else was available at the same time). Edited January 8 by Stuart Richardson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
irenedp Posted January 9 Share #128 Posted January 9 (edited) When I have to travel light I take the M9 and a 10r. Usually one with a lens (a 50 summicron) and the other with a 28. I bought the 10r to have a backup for the 9 and also to avoid changing lenses. I work professionally and have an extensive training in photoshop, so I can tweak color easily. The m10r, though, gets a good base rendering increasing somewhat color temperature and giving a decent tweak to the green. Working with both cameras on a project/assignment, it is very easy to match them. I don’t need to do that with the S3. that is usually matched with an IQ4. I usually start with a color balance of the Phase images and then tweak the S3 DNGs. I only use C1 for the IQ4, so the S3 tweaking happens in Lightroom before moving the image to Photoshop Edited January 9 by irenedp 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmknoble Posted January 9 Share #129 Posted January 9 13 hours ago, Slender said: But there is just something about the color, the robustness of the files (and the camera seemingly), the perfect blend of classic/modern look of the lenses... it is calling me. I like the SL2 EVF a lot but in sunny condition it is not perfect, the colors and contrast are sometimes weird and the battery life annoys me a lot. I found the same to be true about both the S007 and S3 files (I have not owned an S006). I never liked the dynamic range on the SL2 and found I had to sacrifice some high whites or deeper shadows compared to the S files. I do, however, think the SL3 has upped the game a lot and is much closer to the S system. I think it is still a little behind in the “robustness” of the files, but not by too much. The color on the SL3 (and M11) sensors is outstanding. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 9 Share #130 Posted January 9 (edited) Leica remains all M-mount for me - never cared about the L-mount with more bulky AF-based lenses. Leica's SL-series remains below sales expectations due to lots of competitive mirrorless camera gear out there with competitive pricing. The S-series was and is always a niche product in Leica's line. Good line but not for the general user/hobbyist IMO. Really hope Leica releases sooner than later an EVF-M based hybrid (or name it Q with exchangeable M-mount). Edited January 9 by Martin B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted January 9 Share #131 Posted January 9 (edited) 4 hours ago, irenedp said: When I have to travel light I take the M9 and a 10r. Usually one with a lens (a 50 summicron) and the other with a 28. I bought the 10r to have a backup for the 9 and also to avoid changing lenses. I work professionally and have an extensive training in photoshop, so I can tweak color easily. The m10r, though, gets a good base rendering increasing somewhat color temperature and giving a decent tweak to the green. Working with both cameras on a project/assignment, it is very easy to match them. I don’t need to do that with the S3. that is usually matched with an IQ4. I usually start with a color balance of the Phase images and then tweak the S3 DNGs. I only use C1 for the IQ4, so the S3 tweaking happens in Lightroom before moving the image to Photoshop Hello @irenedp and thank you for your input! I had the M9 and now the 10R and I am arriving at similar conclusion as yours. @davidmknoble I am really put off by other thing with the SL3 and M11 to be honest... nothing to do with IQ per say but I like the idea the sensor in M10r was unique to this camera, and it keeps the baseplate, the shutter feels nicer on both SL2 and M10r compared to the SL3 and M11. I bought my M10r new when the M11 was already out for more or less the same price so it was a mindful decision. M11 and SL3 teething issues about sluggishness and freezes was also not really sorted back then. They both feel cheaper made as well, especially compared to a money-no-object design as the first SL601... @Martin B me getting the S would mean getting all main 3 Leica system with interchangeable lenses, and the SL would work with 3 different line up of lenses. I never made as much money with a single camera body as with my SL2 (160 000 clics in 4 years of ownership)... I had love/hate/love phases with it but now I am not interested in letting it go at all. May I ask then why you are lurking on those sections of the forum then if you are all M or nothing 😇? I personally never understood why some are wishing for an EVF M... It makes the camera slower, you loose the all-in-depth vision, the peripheral out of frame observation, you loose the no-black-out operation, the opportunity to see the flash or people blinking as the shot is taken...etc... and if you wanna work with one eye open the EVF would never match your other open eye the same way... Dont get me wrong I like using my M glass on the SL but the pictures aint the same for some reason... the process is simply different Edited January 9 by Slender 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 9 Share #132 Posted January 9 Am 7.1.2025 um 23:28 schrieb Slender: @Einst_Stein and @Tirpitz666 sounds a bit like what Leica sort of did with the M10R vis-a-vis the M9 heritage, or least the perception of it, right? I shoot for a living, so I can make due to learn new ways to tweak a camera color to my liking pretty good.... but of course since rumors has it S3 and M10R uses the same sensor base it would make life easier... I just heard the S007 keeps a slight advantage in DR at lower iso (also the persisting runors it was a 16bit camera vs 14 for S3)... whilst S3 takes the edge at higher ISO.... If it wasnt 3x the price I would defo get the more recent body... @Pieter12 @irenedp @Einst_Stein @Tirpitz666 Would anyone care to send me some DNG of any cameras (s006, 007, s3) so I can have a play at it? The only samples I can find on the internet arent great to start with... Cheers! I own both (bought the S3 used) and while I haven't shot very much yet wit the S3 so far I must say I don't see a lot of difference. I would say if you don't need the MP you are fine with the S007. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted January 9 Share #133 Posted January 9 Many thanks @tom0511! Could you see any major difference in terms of DR or noise at anything up to 3200 - 6400 ? Curves on Photons to Photos seem close enough, too. It seems more and more for me the S007 would be a logical 1st choice... Is the menu system much different than the S3/SL2 or has it been harmonized since by FW updates? Sorry for all the questions... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 9 Share #134 Posted January 9 3 hours ago, Slender said: May I ask then why you are lurking on those sections of the forum then if you are all M or nothing 😇? Only for the reason for getting a Leica-based alternative to the current SL and Q-series with EVF. I would love to have one with EVF and exchangeable mount, preferably M-mount since it would allow Leica to avoid in house competition with existing AF-based cameras like the SL- and Q-series. I personally never understood why some are wishing for an EVF M... It makes the camera slower, you loose the all-in-depth vision, the peripheral out of frame observation, you loose the no-black-out operation, the opportunity to see the flash or people blinking as the shot is taken...etc... and if you wanna work with one eye open the EVF would never match your other open eye the same way... Dont get me wrong I like using my M glass on the SL but the pictures aint the same for some reason... the process is simply different It is a different process for sure - I am currently using digital M cameras and my Sony A7R in parallel because I find in some situations OVF in others using EVF advantageous. I don't see such EVF-M as replacement for my digital Ms but rather as addition using my M lenses without adapter hopefully (still would require one if equipped with L-mount but then at least the sensor would be optimized also for M lenses). A better alternative to my A7R currently would be the Nikon Zf. I love the EVF of the SL series and its viewfinder, but the camera itself is too bulky and also too pricey for my taste for what it delivers compared to other MLCs out there - and I don't need AF for my photography. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Posted January 9 Share #135 Posted January 9 @Martin B thanks for your answer. You are still a long way from small and light mirrorless on the S section of the forum tho ahah 😜🙂 My current set up: M10R with 28f2 asph., 35f2 asph, 50 1.4 asph. SL2 with 24-90 asph and the M adapter. Historically I had R7, R8, M4, M9 and 15, 21 and 90mm lenses. I am split 3 ways for the disposable income lol 😅 : 1) buy more M lenses (buy back my 21 and 90 I had to sell when I was forced to) 2) buy the same primes but in APO SL flavor (21, 50 summilux and 90) for my SL2... I heard @Stuart Richardson 's view this may actually be better than the S in some cases.... 3) go in for about the same amount of money into a 3rd System, the S, with primes only. It's quite cheap for what i used to cost, I like the OG ergonomics and the good old shutter slap... and unlike a Pentax 645Z it aint too ugly and has leica lenses I can use with my SL2 as a backup. I shoot lots of high-end events in the luxury industry with my SL2. That pays the bills, but I like to document day to day life, travel ( that what the M shines at). I had some success selling fine art images and street photography as well... The idea is to invest against the current trends, slow things down without the pain of shooting 4x5 film or having to learn new files from Hasselblad. A camera that forces you to shoot with intent (slow, heavy, tripod advisable, use of extra lights...etc) without being masoschitic and go all the way into "proper" medium format system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter12 Posted January 9 Share #136 Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Slender said: "proper" medium format system. The only "proper" medium format is film. Everything else is an approximation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted January 9 Share #137 Posted January 9 5 hours ago, Slender said: Could you see any major difference in terms of DR or noise at anything up to 3200 - 6400 It is more +12,800 (where the S(007) tops out), I took shots at 25,600 that were acceptable with the S3 beta john 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted January 10 Share #138 Posted January 10 In my experience, the S3 had uncorrectible banding in high ISOs that was visible in strong pushes of even base ISO. I tried other copies and found similar issues. So I would take the S007 if high ISO is a concern. Or dare I say it, the SL2. I have posted it a few times, but here is the SL2 and S3 at max ISO. I don't have an axe to grind, I just owned both and drew my own conclusions. SL2 is on top, S3 on the bottom. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/399738-anyone-still-buying-intoinvesting-in-the-s-system-at-this-point/?do=findComment&comment=5737005'>More sharing options...
Einst_Stein Posted January 10 Share #139 Posted January 10 (edited) 4 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said: In my experience, the S3 had uncorrectible banding in high ISOs that was visible in strong pushes of even base ISO. I tried other copies and found similar issues. So I would take the S007 if high ISO is a concern. Or dare I say it, the SL2. I have posted it a few times, but here is the SL2 and S3 at max ISO. I don't have an axe to grind, I just owned both and drew my own conclusions. SL2 is on top, S3 on the bottom. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I see banking in both in the dark region that has “ PSON” , but I am not sure that is the camera artifact or the object itself. Is that what you are talking about? Anyway, I personally would not pick it at the extreme max ISO, I would take the common situation for the basic and key evaluation. Of course, if that is your major application, YMMV. Edited January 10 by Einst_Stein 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirpitz666 Posted January 10 Share #140 Posted January 10 (edited) Wow that's really bad, especially considering the cost of the camera.. (even if it's an extreme push I can imagine). I know I'll be pretty unpopular in a Leica forum, also considering that I'm pretty new here, but so far I've formed the opinion that going for a S3 looks not to be worth the money it still costs, even used. Basically for the same price (and even less) one can find an used 006 with replaced sensor AND an used Fuji GFX 100/s+upcoming Kipon adapter for S lenses and be able to enjoy the "best of both worlds" remaining in small MF territory, i.e. Leica "CCD colors" plus high MP, high-ISO capable and stabilized sensor plus "modern" AF system with all the related bells and whistles (and Fuji colors are not bad at all btw, film simulations are really good as starting points and also the JPEGs out of camera are amazing). As already mentioned, if one wants to drip his/her feet in the S system, the 007 is currently probably the best bang for the buck in terms of overall flexibility, 006 remains relevant for her "CCD magic" (or sort of 🙂). Maybe I am missing something, but the S3 looks a pretty bad deal to me at the moment. Edited January 10 by Tirpitz666 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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