Shooting sports with the SL3 and zooms

[Oak Bay Leica Guy]

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Hello, I am wondering if anybody has any advice in regards to setting up the SL3 to focus on moving subjects with a relatively high hit rate? I am using a 24-90 and a 100-400. I’m interested in whether or not, anyone on the forum who uses this camera has had luck with zone focussing versus tracking, versus face eye detect for sports such as rugby, cycling, and running races? 

Thank you for any advice!

Mark

www.walkacrossitall.com

[Luke_Miller]

I have the SL2 and the 24-90 and recently shot a children's event.  During the outside portion the children were running.  My autofocus settings are AF-C, Tracking, and joystick initiates autofocus.  I had no problem getting in focus shots of children running full speed towards me. Not 100%, but somewhere around 80%.  I expect the SL3 would do better.

[Oak Bay Leica Guy]

46 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said:

I have the SL2 and the 24-90 and recently shot a children's event.  During the outside portion the children were running.  My autofocus settings are AF-C, Tracking, and joystick initiates autofocus.  I had no problem getting in focus shots of children running full speed towards me. Not 100%, but somewhere around 80%.  I expect the SL3 would do better.

Thank you for taking the time to describe your experiences Luke. 
Much appreciated!

Mark

[Mikko Kankainen]

Ice hockey experience. Quite bad. I prefer SL2-s to SL3, I get more keepers. Of course only as a second body with wider lenses. Action with zooms is Canon/Sony/Nikon terrotory at least in professional shooting cases. I find SL3 afc very unreliable and I'm amazed how some say it's working so much better than with SL2 lineup. Maybe it's lens related and I trust that it is working for some. AFC is however a lot better in videos and in low light but in bright hockey arenas SL3 does not give any benefit imho.

[jaapv]

It may indeed be lens related, you might get better results using the Sigma 70-200

[Mikko Kankainen]

My experience is with 24-70 and two different 50mm primes. In both cases I prefer SL2-s and there is no blurring in evf that SL3 has.

[Oak Bay Leica Guy]

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17 minutes ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

Ice hockey experience. Quite bad. I prefer SL2-s to SL3, I get more keepers. Of course only as a second body with wider lenses. Action with zooms is Canon/Sony/Nikon terrotory at least in professional shooting cases. I find SL3 afc very unreliable and I'm amazed how some say it's working so much better than with SL2 lineup. Maybe it's lens related and I trust that it is working for some. AFC is however a lot better in videos and in low light but in bright hockey arenas SL3 does not give any benefit imho.

I agree with your comments regarding other brands and I of course have much better luck with a D850 and Sony a1, however I now have a stable of Leica cameras as seen in my blog www.walkacrossitall.com and that is, because for all of their detractors, I love using them all.  I will continue to persevere and pray for some firmware magic in the future. BTW I was told at a Leica boutique on Saturday that the newer non APO lenses are faster to focus.  Image quality or hit rate. I must decide.  Thanks for your post. 
cheers

Mark

[Oak Bay Leica Guy]

20 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It may indeed be lens related, you might get better results using the Sigma 70-200

I think it’s worth a try. 
 

thanks

Mark

[jaapv]

3 minutes ago, Oak Bay Leica Guy said:

I think it’s worth a try. 
 

thanks

Mark

Certainly is; you won't have to compromise on quality at any rate.

[Jim B]

34 minutes ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

My experience is with 24-70 and two different 50mm primes. In both cases I prefer SL2-s and there is no blurring in evf that SL3 has.

I'm using the Leica 24-70 and I very happy with it. No problem with auto focus on the SL3. You didn't really describe your focus issues. Were you having a tracking issue? I'm using the 120fps for the viewfinder.

Grain/color grading added in post.

 

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Edited July 29, 2024 by Jim B

[Mikko Kankainen]

Leica 24-70 yes. Tracking looses subject quite easily / focuses to the background even box is in the person etc. There is a lot of discussion already in different thread. My point was that the difference to SL2/s is not that big. But things will improve with future fw updates hopefully.

[Jim B]

7 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

Leica 24-70 yes. Tracking looses subject quite easily / focuses to the background even box is in the person etc. There is a lot of discussion already in different thread. My point was that the difference to SL2/s is not that big. But things will improve with future fw updates hopefully.

I hope to find a detailed explanation that explains all the possible settings for adjusting the tracking. I think it’s counter intuitive and seems like in most instances people want the tracking to stick, and not re- acquire new subject. 
 If anyone knows of an old thread or video that explains it all…. Please let me know!

[Photoworks]

the SL2 videos from leica AF system are on youtube. They tell you what setting to use for each situation.

I had luck with face/body AFc during a marathon race and the 90-280. I was surprised by the results. Of course, it was better when I had an individual racer in the frame. It became more complicated when a group came running to me.

For the SL3 leica educated suggested using iAF, it has been updated to work better on people running/skiing in your direction.

Leica APO Summicron lenses are great in AF speed for sports. The Panasonic/Leica lenses are faster, have simpler contraction, and have less glass, but it is not the APO quality.

Some of the Sigma lenses are not so fast, you would have to test the focus speed for the lenses you want to use.

Leica has not talked about how the phase detection option is implemented on the SL3. In regular use, I don't see a big change from the SL2, almost like they have not activated it in AFs.

I have noticed a significant improvement in video mode. the Panasonic lenses perform very well in AFc. You will have to change some settings in the speed/sensitivity options.

I think we need a big firmware update to bring the responses of the AF to S5II.

To the main question, SPORTS. I would probably go back to a traditional solution of AFs and keep refreshing. probably using a long lens the moment of focus is minimal if you are at a reasonable distance. In some continuous shooting modes, the AF is active only on the first frame anyway.

It won't have the easy capture of Sony, Nikon, and Canon.

Also to be said is the blackout period in between frames is not good. You can't see where to focus when the camera is opening and closing.
Even during portraits, I find myself looking over the camera to see the subject. The new electronic shutter options of Nikon and Sony are much better for that to frame and see the subject and keeping it centered in the frame.

[Manicouagan1]

My best sports with the SL2 were shooting high school varsity baseball with the 90-280 in bright sunlight to cloudy sky.   The SL3 did not become available in baseball season.  Shoot with manual settings of wide open and 1/2000 sec with automatic determination of ISO.   Zone focus area.  Multishot.   Hold the camera as close to the net as you can, and don't use the lens shade.  With practice you can get good images of the batter swinging, dropping the bat and heading to first base.   Shift over to the third base side and be ready for action.   Shots of runners siding into 2nd base or getting tagged out just require some practice but  come out well because the focus distance is not changing much.   With the 90-280 you have the ideal zoom range for shooting the baseball infield.   Lighting is adequate up to about 1 hour before sunset.  

Edited August 2, 2024 by Manicouagan1

[Mikko Kankainen]

Yesterday took it with me to ice hockey game. Main gear Canon R3+100-300 2.8. SL3 at mDNG, 5fps.

Main thing that makes SL3 almost unusable is its overall slowness. It writes images forever even at 18mpix. You can shoot 15-30fps with R3 to same card type for many seconds and it takes like 2-3 seconds to write images. 

And when it's writing you cannot use playback and tag your images that is essential if you use these as a pro enviroment. And there is this weird lag whatever you do. I dont mind it elsewhere but if you have to use even small bursts camera feels very slow. With SL2-s using SD-cards, it is much faster to operate. I just dont get it why SL3's CF writing time is so slow. And I have tried with three different card. In this video SL3 uses faster CF card than the one inside R3. I could get it even faster with cRAW. 

And that SL3 shooting at 5 fps 😁 . Seems that it cannot even hold on to that. R3 writes like 100 images the same time that SL3 writes 5 images. So it feels. 

VIDEO (R3 file size is larger than SL3's!):

SL2-s 5fps DNG to both cards
SL3 5fps 18mpx DNG to CF, JPG to SD
R3 15fps RAW (no cRAW)
 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6jbrqlvl8vq7tt7prpirl/IMG_4655.MOV?rlkey=giptz05eznlhaahora37qf951&dl=0

[Photoworks]

the M camera is probably faster than the SL3!

[Mikko Kankainen]

21 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

the M camera is probably faster than the SL3!

Way faster! M11 even at 60mpix is faster. As mentioned there is something weird how SL3 performs, firmware is just not anywhere near where it should be. Or then there is something strange with components.

edit.
Can't test M11 because it went to Germany but as I remember M11 is fast to operate and images gets written quite fast.

Edited August 10, 2024 by Mikko Kankainen

[ALScott]

On 8/10/2024 at 1:18 PM, Mikko Kankainen said:

Way faster! M11 even at 60mpix is faster. As mentioned there is something weird how SL3 performs, firmware is just not anywhere near where it should be. Or then there is something strange with components.

edit.
Can't test M11 because it went to Germany but as I remember M11 is fast to operate and images gets written quite fast.

Curious, what lens were you using to shoot sports with the M11?

[geronimosan]

On 8/10/2024 at 11:02 AM, Mikko Kankainen said:

Yesterday took it with me to ice hockey game. Main gear Canon R3+100-300 2.8. SL3 at mDNG, 5fps.

Main thing that makes SL3 almost unusable is its overall slowness. It writes images forever even at 18mpix. You can shoot 15-30fps with R3 to same card type for many seconds and it takes like 2-3 seconds to write images. 

And when it's writing you cannot use playback and tag your images that is essential if you use these as a pro enviroment. And there is this weird lag whatever you do. I dont mind it elsewhere but if you have to use even small bursts camera feels very slow. With SL2-s using SD-cards, it is much faster to operate. I just dont get it why SL3's CF writing time is so slow. And I have tried with three different card. In this video SL3 uses faster CF card than the one inside R3. I could get it even faster with cRAW. 

And that SL3 shooting at 5 fps 😁 . Seems that it cannot even hold on to that. R3 writes like 100 images the same time that SL3 writes 5 images. So it feels. 

VIDEO (R3 file size is larger than SL3's!):

SL2-s 5fps DNG to both cards
SL3 5fps 18mpx DNG to CF, JPG to SD
R3 15fps RAW (no cRAW)
 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6jbrqlvl8vq7tt7prpirl/IMG_4655.MOV?rlkey=giptz05eznlhaahora37qf951&dl=0

Isn't the R3 a 24MP camera while SL3 is 60MP?  One camera is built for speed with lower quality images. The other is build for quality with lower speed fps.

And with R3 you are writing one file to one card, and it sounds like with SL3 you are writing 2 files to 2 cards at 2 different speeds.

 

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[Mikko Kankainen]

Yes I understand the differences. The topic was shooting sports with SL3 and I find it useless in that genre. Even if I drop mpix to 18mpix it does not become any faster. I find SL3 to be very slow writing images. And if you read my infos, filesizes are about the same. I felt that M11 was faster. I have experience with R5 that is also a high MP camera, it was not this slow, one could use it as a sports camera. There is some very strange going on with SL3 (SL2 was the same).

I use S52X as my second camera. It is a much better now with new FW.