How to know if my M10 is perfectly level, and not pointing up/down?

[MikeMyers]

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I am using my M10 with a PC Correction lens (and Novaflex adapter) on my M10, set up with the Visoflex.

Is there a software or hardware method to know if my camera is level, or pointing up/down ?

This thread implies my M10 may already have such a gauge?  If so, how do I turn it on?

   

 

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Edited July 26, 2024 by MikeMyers
added more information

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[MaticB]

In Main menu go to the Capture assistants, and in the next step activate Level gauge. When taking pictures, In Live view, either on LCD screen or Visoflex, activate central button in multidirectional pad, and you will follow two indicator of camera positition: level of the camera and pointing position. It works just fine!

[evikne]

Level Gauge is only available in the M10-P and later, but not in the regular M10. 

[MikeMyers]

Oops......     Any kind of an add-on device I can buy?  

Any suggestions on how to do this without a gage or update?

[Sailronin]

I've forgotten where I found this but pretty sure you can find one on Amazon; a simple hot shoe level will solve your problem.

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Edited July 27, 2024 by Sailronin

[MikeMyers]

Well, I already had to remove my thumb rest to mount my Visofles, and with this in place, I can't attach my Visoflex.  

 

Also curious, years ago I learned from this forum to never use a shutter release button.  Curious why you do it.  What I learned was to allow my shutter release finger to touch the outer ring, both furthest from my hand, and  closest, and to not push down on the button, just apply pressure to it while resting my finger on the "cylinder" that goes around the shutter release, without adding pressure to cause the camera to move.  I think it was @jaapv who sorted this out for me a year or two ago. I've still got two 'buttons" somewhere, to give away. 

I can't afford to get an M10P or anything newer.  I struggled just to get the M10.  Maybe in my next life.......

Edited July 27, 2024 by MikeMyers

[Sailronin]

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12 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Well, I already had to remove my thumb rest to mount my Visofles, and with this in place, I can't attach my Visoflex.  

 

Also curious, years ago I learned from this forum to never use a shutter release button.  Curious why you do it.  What I learned was to allow my shutter release finger to touch the outer ring, both furthest from my hand, and  closest, and to not push down on the button, just apply pressure to it while resting my finger on the "cylinder" that goes around the shutter release, without adding pressure to cause the camera to move.  I think it was @jaapv who sorted this out for me a year or two ago. I've still got two 'buttons" somewhere, to give away. 

I can't afford to get an M10P or anything newer.  I struggled just to get the M10.  Maybe in my next life.......

I got that level for use when I was shooting an Xpan with the 30mm.  I rarely (really never) use my Visoflex (it came as a package deal)  as I bought the M10 so I didn't need to look at an EVF.  The only time I use the level is zone focusing and shooting from the hip for street photography, which won't help you with a T/S lens. Sorry.

Edited July 27, 2024 by Sailronin

[MikeMyers]

When I use my 135mm Hector, I guess I can use the rear screen, but I prefer the Visoflex.

I also love that I can look down into it.

Also, that it tells me if GPS has connected.  

 

I doubt I'll be using the tilt-lens all that much, but it does save me from correcting perspective distortion on many images.

Did you mean 300mm ???   

I think you're right.  I never missed my Visoflex until after I got used to it.   🙂

[mujk]

I think you could just temporarily place the spirit level thing somewhere else on the top plate without the need to occupy the hot shoe. Maybe using double-sided tape to keep it secure. Also some tripod heads have a built-in spirit level.

[MikeMyers]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

There are tons of self adhesive spirit levels out there. Place one next to the hot shoe to the left.

I checked the link - this is what I was looking for.

I would want to remove most of the self-adhesive stuff, as I don't want to damage the top of my camera when I remove it.  I will search later if it's sold in the USA.  

Thanks - exactly what I want.

 

[Jeff S]

Or you can take a quick pic and see if it’s level.

Jeff

[MikeMyers]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Never rely on a camera web forum to tell you what you should or should not do in life. Mount the button and if you like it just keep using it. I have had a soft release button on for years on all of my M cameras, especially love it on digital M ones. Never missed a shot because of it. Never mismetered anything because of it. Never destroyed any trigger button. Never had any faults due to it. There have been some stories here back in the day about soft releases destroying trigger systems etc. but I am 100% sure Leica would not be selling them had there existed even a remote possibility for any flaws or damages (apart from bad luck).

I don't rely on "a  camera web forum", but I very much DID and DO rely on @jaapv.  

This isn't about missing shots or mis-metering, or destroying anything.  When I ask people to take a photo of me, very often the camera moves down from the pressure, which they have been oblivious to.  If you're curious, look for the post describing how to do this.  Then take a photo of something quickly, while only paying attention to whether the camera moves down from the finger pressure.  Not sure about you 

I need to find the article about this from many years ago.  It certainly DID help me.

I suspect you're talented enough that your camera stays rock-still, but I was having issues.  Taking a photo, hand held, at 1/10th or 1/4 of a second, it was obvious.  

I still love all my Leica cameras, M2, M3, M10, but I can no longer afford to buy newer models - being retired is SO limiting.....

[MikeMyers]

3 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Or you can take a quick pic and see if it’s level.

On a tripod, that is an excellent idea!!!  So obvious, now that you've said it.  I never thought of it before.  I've been looking at vertical lines in my Visoflex, to see if they are upright and parallel.  Regardless of anything else I do in the future, I'll follow your suggestion.  

[TomB_tx]

3 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

I still love all my Leica cameras, M2, M3, M10, but I can no longer afford to buy newer models - being retired is SO limiting.....

Amen! I retired in 2009, but got along fine until prices skyrocketed. I've bought my last Leica camera or lens.

[MikeMyers]

Oops, my M8.2 is never going to forgive me for leaving it out.

Unlike other brands, Leica cameras are "forever cameras" for me.  My 8.2 has a permanent spot with me, as it's the only camera I own that makes it so easy to shoot infrared photos.  When the M9 came out, I had the option to switch, but the infrared was too important for me.  That it had a "crop sensor" didn't bother me.

Being retired, plus the price increase....ouch.  But my M10 does just about everything I need it to do.  

When I travel, I'm more inclined to take my Nikon.  If anything bad happened, it would be easier to replace.

Keeping the camera level is especially important with the shift lens I fitted it with.

I need to stay more up to date in this forum!

[PCPix]

On 7/27/2024 at 1:11 AM, Sailronin said:

hot shoe level will solve your problem

The little ‘double bubble’ levels don’t need to be in the hotshoe - all of the outer surfaces are parallel, so it can simply placed upside down on the top plate as you’re setting up the shot (assuming you are on a tripod?) and then put in your pocket when set up.

I also use mine for levelling my record player… they are remarkably accurate. 

Alternatively lose the Visoflex, put the bubble level in the hotshoe and compose on the back screen… that’s my preferred method for architectural/interiors shoots. 

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[jaapv]

On 7/27/2024 at 11:55 AM, Al Brown said:

Never rely on a camera web forum to tell you what you should or should not do in life. Mount the button and if you like it just keep using it. I have had a soft release button on for years on all of my M cameras, especially love it on digital M ones. Never missed a shot because of it. Never mismetered anything because of it. Never destroyed any trigger button. Never had any faults due to it. There have been some stories here back in the day about soft releases destroying trigger systems etc. but I am 100% sure Leica would not be selling them had there existed even a remote possibility for any flaws or damages (apart from bad luck).

Now bear in mind I am not a diehard soft release fan, just a happy user. Photography and camera haptics should always be what we feel comfortable with, not what others say is "right". Wanna use the soft release? Use the soft release. Wanna brass your black paint MP? Sure, why not. Wanna splurge on that Noctilux? Whatever floats your boat. Life is too short to follow someone else's path.

The M release  is a carry-over from the brilliant design on the M3 by an unknown genius. Using the technique that Mike describes it allows longer shutter times with less motion blur than any other camera, allowing generations of Leica M users to get special photographs. Use any soft button you like, but when camera shake becomes an issue, remove it and use the shutter as intended. The threaded hole in the button is originally meant for a cable release, but was closed to prevent moisture entry (a vintage advantage of a soft release) Since then it is mainly there for nostalgic reasons and - indeed- for those who wish to pimp their camera. Mike very kindly ascribes  the shutter use to me, I may have mentioned it first on the forum in the original M FAQ, but it is Leica lore since 1954.

[jaapv]

Slow speeds are not just for low light... And you might want to read the motion blur discussions for high resolution sensors, whether you agree or not, it is a real problem for many users.
As I said, everybody should use whatever works for him, but that does not take away that a soft release impacts stability negatively when releasing the shutter. 
I don't think that modern sensor technique has anything to do with camera stability; film does not wobble natively, fixed sensors are still attached to the camera frame.
If that were true, people would not be crying out for IBIS. 

If your camera is rock-solid at any shutter speed for you, all the better. It does not apply to me, nor many others. Actually my lowest reliable shutter speed on an M @35 mm is 1/10th (more than 80% sharp) - but not with a soft release.

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[MikeMyers]

7 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Surprisingly, the lowest shutter speed (WITH soft release) I managed to produce sharp photos with was 1/12s - and my hands are by no means steady. Point proven - even with soft release there is a flawless technique for slow speed photography in modern CMOS digital cameras

You might want to consider how large you might want to print, along with how much you want to crimp.

Back to me - I still have my release "buttons", but I can't think of any advantage to using them, and touching the "cylinder" around the release, while only applying pressure to the release, is no longer possible as my fingers are then too high.  

Both might be "good enough", but while I was puzzled when @jaapv first posted (re-posted) that information, I now use that technique on all my cameras.  Pushing down on the shutter release has to move the camera downwards (equal and opposite forces).  Touching the cylinder around the release, and just applying pressure to the release, doesn't attempt to move the camera.  Using a "button", has to be applying pressure to move the camera down.

Don't believe it?  Balance something, maybe a pencil, on your finger, and with a finger from the other hand, press down on either end of the pencil.  The pencil will try to move down, as you are pushing from above.  Once you get used to resting your shutter release, as your finger is also resting on the cylinder, and smoothly applying pressure, the amount the camera might move is greatly reduced.   But if you don't really accept that, as I doubted it long ago, just do some testing.  My finger as it touches the shutter release is horizontal, not vertical.  My finger is resting on the "cylinder" around the shutter release.  I only apply more "pressure" to the actual shutter release, not "pushing" down on it.

[CP93]

52 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

You might want to consider how large you might want to print, along with how much you want to crimp.

Back to me - I still have my release "buttons", but I can't think of any advantage to using them, and touching the "cylinder" around the release, while only applying pressure to the release, is no longer possible as my fingers are then too high.  

Both might be "good enough", but while I was puzzled when @jaapv first posted (re-posted) that information, I now use that technique on all my cameras.  Pushing down on the shutter release has to move the camera downwards (equal and opposite forces).  Touching the cylinder around the release, and just applying pressure to the release, doesn't attempt to move the camera.  Using a "button", has to be applying pressure to move the camera down.

Don't believe it?  Balance something, maybe a pencil, on your finger, and with a finger from the other hand, press down on either end of the pencil.  The pencil will try to move down, as you are pushing from above.  Once you get used to resting your shutter release, as your finger is also resting on the cylinder, and smoothly applying pressure, the amount the camera might move is greatly reduced.   But if you don't really accept that, as I doubted it long ago, just do some testing.  My finger as it touches the shutter release is horizontal, not vertical.  My finger is resting on the "cylinder" around the shutter release.  I only apply more "pressure" to the actual shutter release, not "pushing" down on it.

I try to squeeze between shutter finger and supporting fingers, to get as close to equilibrium as I can. But I rarely handhold below 1/30th.