50mm Summilux Black Chrome vs Original & New Summilux ASPH

[Leon Berg]

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Hello everybody, 

 

may I ask if somebody still uses the BC and is happy with it? Any significant findings about the lenses character and mechanics? Are you still happy with it? 

Does it really vignette more? Has anyone ever made a comparison? That would be a downer for me indeed. 

I returned my black 11891 because I wanted some more heft in my hand and the version made of brass. The silver one is the one I wanted but now decided to get the

BC from a dealer I know. Price difference is approximately 1k. 

I hear very nice things about the handling and I really do not care about the hood (in theory). 

I shoot street, portraits, my family, flowers, trees, cars, rats, people, garbage, the sky. I like nice stuff in my hand. The black aluminium is nice, but it's already not a light weight, so I can accept 60-130g more. I come from DSLR.

What else? Let's talk about it. Appreciate your time!

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[farnz]

Here's my take on the Black Chrome, which I still use:

I had a 50/1.4 Summilux asph v1 from new for 10 years and over that time the focus ring was slightly jerky and sticky, not enough to justify spending months in The Mothership while it was being adjusted but enough that it was noticeable - many people told me that it would smooth out with use.  It hadn't smoothed out after 10 years of use so I traded it for the new BC after I tried it at my Dealer's and it is buttery smooth and has been a joy to use ever since. 

The BC has a 43 mm filter thread (compared to the 'standard' Summilux asph's 46 mm) which made it seem a little smaller to me.  I don't use the massive metal hood because the BC is very flare resistant - or at least mine is.

I dislike the term "sharp" in relation to lens performance because it's indistinct and imprecise; it means something different to many people and can't be measured.  I prefer lens performance described in terms of contrast, resolution, definition, and acutance so that the quantities can be compared and measured (the curse of my inner Engineer).  In terms of contrast, resolution, definition, and acutance I see no difference between the 'standard' Summilux asph and the BC.

One of the things I love about the 50/1.0 Noctilux is the gentle, subtle, increasing vignette at the edge wide open.  The BC has a very similar subtle vignette wide open and I've always assumed it's a 'physical' vignette resulting from the 43 mm filter ring.  The other thing I love about the 50/1.0 Noctilux is its character, which the 'standard' Summilux asph lacks; some people say it's "too clinical" but I think of it as a little too clean and perfect whereas I prefer a bit of soul for want of a better word.

The reason I mention the Noctilux is that for me the BC represents the ideal blend of the Noctilux's vignette and character with the 'perfection' of the 'standard' Summilux asph and it sits beautifully between them.  Some might not agree with what I've written above and that's fine - it's only how I see things.

Pete.

[IkarusJohn]

My silver 50 Summilux ASPH is the first version.  When the black chrome version came out, I thought it looked fantastic, but I liked myl silver version and could see no jutification for having two.  

So, when the black chrome 50 APO Summicron came out, I jumped at it - lovely lens in the hand, currently sitting on my M-A waiting for the opportuity to go out and take some photos …

[Leon Berg]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb farnz:

Here's my take on the Black Chrome, which I still use:

I had a 50/1.4 Summilux asph v1 from new for 10 years and over that time the focus ring was slightly jerky and sticky, not enough to justify spending months in The Mothership while it was being adjusted but enough that it was noticeable - many people told me that it would smooth out with use.  It hadn't smoothed out after 10 years of use so I traded it for the new BC after I tried it at my Dealer's and it is buttery smooth and has been a joy to use ever since. 

The BC has a 43 mm filter thread (compared to the 'standard' Summilux asph's 46 mm) which made it seem a little smaller to me.  I don't use the massive metal hood because the BC is very flare resistant - or at least mine is.

I dislike the term "sharp" in relation to lens performance because it's indistinct and imprecise; it means something different to many people and can't be measured.  I prefer lens performance described in terms of contrast, resolution, definition, and acutance so that the quantities can be compared and measured (the curse of my inner Engineer).  In terms of contrast, resolution, definition, and acutance I see no difference between the 'standard' Summilux asph and the BC.

One of the things I love about the 50/1.0 Noctilux is the gentle, subtle, increasing vignette at the edge wide open.  The BC has a very similar subtle vignette wide open and I've always assumed it's a 'physical' vignette resulting from the 43 mm filter ring.  The other thing I love about the 50/1.0 Noctilux is its character, which the 'standard' Summilux asph lacks; some people say it's "too clinical" but I think of it as a little too clean and perfect whereas I prefer a bit of soul for want of a better word.

The reason I mention the Noctilux is that for me the BC represents the ideal blend of the Noctilux's vignette and character with the 'perfection' of the 'standard' Summilux asph and it sits beautifully between them.  Some might not agree with what I've written above and that's fine - it's only how I see things.

Pete.

Thank you for your post,

and charming description of both lenses.

As a future buyer who owns the 11891 which works perfectly fine, I have a somewhat more clinical approach now.. I want to rule out too much emotion when buying the lens. It’s beautiful, that’s for sure.. but I don’t want to pay more for a vignette that I could always add if I wanted.

So the thing with the vignette is definitely noticeable? I will test the lenses side by side and then decide.

 

[farnz]

1 hour ago, Leon Berg said:

So the thing with the vignette is definitely noticeable?

It's subtle, as is the Noctilux's, which is why I'm attracted it by it.  It's also worth mentioning that the vignettes of both of these lenses are graduated vignettes (which underpins their subtlety) rather than just a darker area around the edges of pictures.

You've said you could simply add the vignette if you wanted but mimicing the Noctilux's characteristic graduated vignette in post-processing is certainly not simple if achievable at all.  I've been using Photoshop along with other pp software for 25+ years and while I wouldn't claim to be a professional or a super-user I am quite proficient in PS including the complex L-A-B colour space that offers a massive amount of additional flexibility beyond RGB owing to separating the pixel information into separate channels for luminance and colour information.  I have yet to convincingly mimic the characteristic but you might possess superior skills to mine and, if so, the subtle, graduated vignette becomes a non-issue.

I have no 'skin in this game' so whatever you choose will be right for you but if I can help your understanding of what (I see) is the difference between the BC and the 'standard' Summilux asph then I'm happy to help.

Pete.

[Leon Berg]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb farnz:

It's subtle, as is the Noctilux's, which is why I'm attracted it by it.  It's also worth mentioning that the vignettes of both of these lenses are graduated vignettes (which underpins their subtlety) rather than just a darker area around the edges of pictures.

You've said you could simply add the vignette if you wanted but mimicing the Noctilux's characteristic graduated vignette in post-processing is certainly not simple if achievable at all.  I've been using Photoshop along with other pp software for 25+ years and while I wouldn't claim to be a professional or a super-user I am quite proficient in PS including the complex L-A-B colour space that offers a massive amount of additional flexibility beyond RGB owing to separating the pixel information into separate channels for luminance and colour information.  I have yet to convincingly mimic the characteristic but you might possess superior skills to mine and, if so, the subtle, graduated vignette becomes a non-issue.

I have no 'skin in this game' so whatever you choose will be right for you but if I can help your understanding of what (I see) is the difference between the BC and the 'standard' Summilux asph then I'm happy to help.

Pete.

Dear Pete, 

it wasn't my intention to undermine your statement. I am not famous for being a great post processor. What you describe sounds like serious skills to me and also experienced observation over the years. I will examine the lenses with your observation in mind and see if I can see what you described. 

Thank you very much!

[Kiwimac]

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I have the 50 Apo Summicron in brass and black chrome, which whilst different optically looks broadly similar to the Lux version. I’ve never seen or used them side by side though. 
 

The build quality is amongst the very best I’ve seen in almost 50 years of photography. It’s noticeably heavier than the usual black anodised aluminium versions but the feel of the focus ring is sublimely smooth. 
 

I like the way the Apo lenses render. I had the 35 Apo which I very mistakenly sold and will definitely own again.  Although both are f2, the rapid fall off makes the results appear as if they came from a faster lens. 

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[WvE]

I bought the 50 Lux BC shortly after it was released. It's a beautiful lens, but I found it simply too heavy. I bought the "original" 50 Lux ASPH to replace it; it felt substantially lighter, and I just love the built-in lens hood. Didn't notice any optical differences.     

[Leon Berg]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb WvE:

I bought the 50 Lux BC shortly after it was released. It's a beautiful lens, but I found it simply too heavy. I bought the "original" 50 Lux ASPH to replace it; it felt substantially lighter, and I just love the built-in lens hood. Didn't notice any optical differences.     

I just returned my 11891, because I like and wanted the heavier 11892 or black chrome. 

I know, this sounds completely stupid to most people. 

[250swb]

@Leon Berg There's a perfectly sound optical theory that says to stop the edges of the image looking lighter against a white border (in effect a reverse vignette) you need to darken the edges of the image a fraction to counteract this optical effect. This is what the Summilux BC does at wide apertures but it's a natural effect of the design and is subtle. It's isn't the bug-a-boo come to ruin a photograph.

But generally the Leica M system is a fickle mistress if you don't have any post processing skills, and to be good with any M camera or lens you can't take it as read that you are having the ultimate image making experience by leaving the camera and lens to process the image entirely. So while out buying a new Summilux consider that to get the best out of it some experience in post processing is needed, or you may as well buy a Fuji or whatever and have a camera that is more amateur friendly.

Edited August 12 by 250swb
originally wrote Summilux BS, Freudian slip

[Leon Berg]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb 250swb:

@Leon Berg There's a perfectly sound optical theory that says to stop the edges of the image looking lighter against a white border (in effect a reverse vignette) you need to darken the edges of the image a fraction to counteract this optical effect. This is what the Summilux BC does at wide apertures but it's a natural effect of the design and is subtle. It's isn't the bug-a-boo come to ruin a photograph.

But generally the Leica M system is a fickle mistress if you don't have any post processing skills, and to be good with any M camera or lens you can't take it as read that you are having the ultimate image making experience by leaving the camera and lens to process the image entirely. So while out buying a new Summilux consider that to get the best out of it some experience in post processing is needed, or you may as well buy a Fuji or whatever and have a camera that is more amateur friendly.

Haha, I like the Freudian Slip.. well.. is it really BS? 😄

I wouldnt call my self an amateur, first of all, neither a professional though, although I worked in the field (that doesn't say anything about skills I admit)

What I am trying to say is, I do not do a lot of post processing, but of course use lightroom to a certain extent. I don't have the interest as of now to do more post

processing, but admittedly your post makes me curious about what exactly you mean by post processing in regards of the vignette. 

I like my results out of camera, but for sure there is room for improvement. 

What is true is, that it doesn't matter it I used a Fuji or Leica, because I do not put too much effort into post processing. 

I use my digital M10 in order to avoid high film cost and time developing film and scanning it. 

I should add that I started with film Leicas and love the whole process of walking around with a meterless body, sticking to one or two film stocks and developer 

and just shoot, shoot, shoot.. My digital Leica was bought because of the reasons I mention above and it's just needed sometimes, to have the results available faster. 

 

Anyhow.. I love lenses, too That is why the black chrome spoke to me. I have the Summicron Rigid, which I love, but 1m MFD and "just" f2 sometimes aren't enough. 

I tried the Summilux 11891, a great lens, but didn't like the aluminum black casing. I will trade it for the much heavier brass silver version or the black chrome, I just need that heft and feel of a brass lens. 

 

And.. I will try to learn more about post processing, that's for sure not to neglect

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Leon Berg said:

Haha, I like the Freudian Slip.. well.. is it really BS? 😄

I wouldnt call my self an amateur, first of all, neither a professional though, although I worked in the field (that doesn't say anything about skills I admit)

What I am trying to say is, I do not do a lot of post processing, but of course use lightroom to a certain extent. I don't have the interest as of now to do more post

processing, but admittedly your post makes me curious about what exactly you mean by post processing in regards of the vignette. 

I like my results out of camera, but for sure there is room for improvement. 

What is true is, that it doesn't matter it I used a Fuji or Leica, because I do not put too much effort into post processing. 

I use my digital M10 in order to avoid high film cost and time developing film and scanning it. 

I should add that I started with film Leicas and love the whole process of walking around with a meterless body, sticking to one or two film stocks and developer 

and just shoot, shoot, shoot.. My digital Leica was bought because of the reasons I mention above and it's just needed sometimes, to have the results available faster. 

 

Anyhow.. I love lenses, too That is why the black chrome spoke to me. I have the Summicron Rigid, which I love, but 1m MFD and "just" f2 sometimes aren't enough. 

I tried the Summilux 11891, a great lens, but didn't like the aluminum black casing. I will trade it for the much heavier brass silver version or the black chrome, I just need that heft and feel of a brass lens. 

 

And.. I will try to learn more about post processing, that's for sure not to neglect

I think whichever Summilux you choose (I have the 11891) it's going to be a great lens, and while I'm not into 'character' lens hype the Summilux for me is the Leica design with the most benign and pleasant performance at any f/stop and in B&W or colour. I could swap all the others for Voigtlander but not my 50mm Summilux.

[Leon Berg]

I got my Black Chrome now for a brief period and have to say, I really don't know why I always ask how others perceive things instead of trying it myself.

The lens is incredible in every regard. I found what I was looking for. 

 

Edited August 18 by Leon Berg

[evikne]

31 minutes ago, Leon Berg said:

I got my Black Chrome now for a brief period and have to say, I really don't know why I always ask how others perceive things instead of trying it myself.

The lens is incredible in every regard. I found what I was looking for. 

The tactile feel of this lens is so amazing that it has to be experienced.