How many analog Leicas does one need to have at least one functioning camera?

[atournas]

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One purely mechanical Leica M or any film M with the battery removed. From my experience, it's the electronics that is most likely to fail you. Remember M7?

[Mikep996]

One.  My M6, a 1984 model, works perfectly and has never been serviced...   It is my only 35mm film camera.

[williamj]

This is a sad story and you seem to be particularly unlucky. Obviously, a 40 yr old camera that still works today is a survivor and subject to survivor bias, but, because we don't know how many new Leicas broke down after a yr or two of use forty years ago, no one here can say how unlucky you are. Clearly, a well maintained older camera might be useful as a back up to your two relatively new MPs, that seems to be the consensus.

[leicam62003]

Am 22.7.2024 um 20:04 schrieb Kl@usW.:

how many Leicas does one need to be "ready to shoot" or stay that way?

Interesting question but I always thought one. A good one. And I thought good cameras had the name Leica? That doesn't seem to be the case based on your experience.
Well, I never got into the digital Leicas and only worked with analogue Leica cameras. None of them had ever seen a repair shop. Fortunately not.
And I only ever had one camera, even though I had many models. 2 M analogue? Why? I have to have that much trust, otherwise the price isn't worth it, it's just a film holder but a very, very good one, normally.

Now I've bought an M4-P and so far it's working great. OK, it's like new too. I just had to get the viewfinder cleaned but nothing else. I hope it stays that way and I hope you get an M that won't annoy you for once.............. Chin up.

[Kl@usW.]

Thank you for the interesting, compassionate, and encouraging responses.

My Leica life began in 1966 when my father handed me 300 Deutsche Marks to buy a coat so that he wouldn't have to see me in the hated army parka anymore.(American Army surplus ). I then took the train to the nearest larger town, got stuck at a shop window, and came home not with a coat, but with a Leica IIIf plus Summar. My mother was horrified, my father thrilled. After that came (from my own money) an M4-2, an M5, an M6, a wide-angle MP, an MP 0.85, and an M7. Not quite one M7, but 3 or 4; hope died last. Then the M8, the M9, the M240, and then, after an M2, the aforementioned, now synchronously failed MPs. I don't know if all of you who photograph with an M6 without problems are particularly fortunate  or if I, with a whole folder of invoices and Leica correspondence, am particularly unfortunate or clumsy, but looking back, the M4-2 and the M2 were the most uncomplicated. The M7s were catastrophic. Once, Leica sent me a completely new, originally packaged one because the one I bought practically had a service subscription. I sold the last M7 (with service!) in 2022 after the motherboard failed once again. So now, I'm waiting for my chrome MP and will send the sister MP in black lacquer for service, but not to Wetzlar, but to Holland, because a 10-month repair time borders on expropriation. I don't want to omit a friendly gesture: Leica Stuttgart offered me an M5 to tide me over - thank you, Mr. Strehlow - and Wetzlar offered me a loaner MP - thank you, Mr. Stiller - but at the same time informed me that the MP (after 8 months) was still not repaired, and asked me to excuse "the circumstances." Why am I putting up with this? I don't know... What I know, that I will not buy a new MP or M6 any time soon as I had planned, but rather a nice and serviced surviver from the last century. 

[Fotoklaus]

That really sounds very unlucky. I own M1, M2, M3, M4, M4-2, and an M6 and, as I said, all of them have had a service but just minor repairs or CLA needed.

And that just once.

My M6 is from 1991 and works well. Took a lot of slides with that camera, no problems so far. The M is a solid design in general and perhaps you just need

one good repairman to end your odyssee.

So take a look at a serviced M4 or M4-2 and get happy with it 😉

[hansvons]

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18 hours ago, Kl@usW. said:

What I know, that I will not buy a new MP or M6 any time soon as I had planned, but rather a nice and serviced surviver from the last century. 

When I went back to film and thus to the M system, I figured that a freshly cla-ed M4P would be the best bang for the buck, which turned out to be true. This camera is almost as satisfyingly operating as a pristine M3 but offers 35mm frame lines. 

Because film cameras come in pairs and I wanted a light meter, I was happy to realise that the new 2022 M6 brought down prices of the classic M6 from their all-time pandemic high.

You should find a serviced M6 Classic from a reputable dealer for 2.5K. The worst scenario would be a dead light meter that brings down the value in M4P territory, which would be roughly 1.7K. I find the risk relatively unexciting, assuming that the cameras are daily workhorses. 

[costa43]

I recently got back into film and picked up an m5 after trying a variety of different film Ms. It will be my primary shooter but I'm looking for a backup camera just in case. I think it is always wise to have 2 cameras you can call upon. Servicing takes so long now. It will also be nice to switch from black and white to colour with relative ease.

[a.noctilux]

58 minutes ago, costa43 said:

I recently got back into film and picked up an m5 after trying a variety of different film Ms

As backup M why not another M5 ?

A bit heavier but same M has advantages.

Side note, in the past I fancied (not for long) one M with b&w another with color film, it was not practical at all.

So after that, I learned mindsets, b&w or color not both.

[costa43]

Just now, a.noctilux said:

As backup M why not another M5 ?

A bit heavier but same M has advantages.

Side note, in the past I fancied (not for long) one M with b&w another with color film, it was not practical at all.

So after that, I learned mindsets, b&w or color not both.

I agree about the mindset, it really helps me but my wife likes colour for family snaps, where as I could only shoot black and white forever and be happy, so to have a colour film loaded in the back up camera would prove helpful I think. I will buy a back up and try it to see how I get on.

I absolutely love the m5. It's the most intuitive Leica camera I have ever used but I think I would like to experience a different body to appease my natural curiosity of trying new things. I was dead set on an MP but I think I am tempted to go meterless on the 2nd body and see whether I enjoy the experience. After all, I already have the best meter in the world in the m5. 😜

Edited July 26, 2024 by costa43

[a.noctilux]

I see that we have different "point of view".

In that case, you have plenty thousands of old M (cheaper but not much, as M5 is the less loved M so the reasonable pricing).

No meter, I'd say M-A (my last film Ms, but new ones are full of bugs), then M4-2/M4-P, M4/M2/M3 etc.

M2 would be my second choice, in your shoes.

[costa43]

Just now, a.noctilux said:

I see that we have different "point of view".

In that case, you have plenty thousands of old M (cheaper but not much, as M5 is the less loved M so the reasonable pricing).

No meter, I'd say M-A (my last film Ms, but new ones are full of bugs), then M4-2/M4-P, M4/M2/M3 etc.

M2 would be my second choice, in your shoes.

I think our point of view is quite similar actually, I'm just going against mine for others whereas you are not 😀 I'm tempted by an M-A. It's beautiful and it would be nice to have something newer. Let's see what comes up.

[TomB_tx]

1 hour ago, costa43 said:

I absolutely love the m5. It's the most intuitive Leica camera I have ever used

I added an M5 several years ago and agree it's a great camera. I really like a true spot meter like the M5 uses - I've used a film CL (similar meter cell) since the 1970s. However, for me the M5 display has more information than I need, and I prefer the M6 display with the simple LED arrows to indicate exposure. I tend to pre-set shutter for conditions, then just tweak aperture for exposure. I suppose those more enamored with shallow DOF and bokeh do the opposite.

[pippy]

24 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

...I tend to pre-set shutter for conditions, then just tweak aperture for exposure. I suppose those more enamored with shallow DOF and bokeh do the opposite...

Oddly enough I almost always set aperture first then tweak shutter-speed as I usually want a particular amount of the subject-matter sharp but rarely because I want shallow DOF; quite the opposite in fact.

Funny how we are all creatures of our own particular habits!

Philip.

 

[costa43]

25 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

I added an M5 several years ago and agree it's a great camera. I really like a true spot meter like the M5 uses - I've used a film CL (similar meter cell) since the 1970s. However, for me the M5 display has more information than I need, and I prefer the M6 display with the simple LED arrows to indicate exposure. I tend to pre-set shutter for conditions, then just tweak aperture for exposure. I suppose those more enamored with shallow DOF and bokeh do the opposite.

I’m the opposite, I prefer the m5 way over the red triangles. I like the shutter speed in the viewfinder. I can adjust the speed whilst framing and at the same time being able to ensure I don’t go to low on the shutter. I find the red dots annoying as I usually meter but then have to take the camera away from my eye to check that the shutter speed is not too low!

[Anbaric]

Servicing is becoming an issue with the M5. Well-known technicians like Youxin Ye, Will van Manen, and Alan and James Starkie of Cameraworks-UK say on their websites that they no longer work on them. DAG can fix some things but not others (like RF prism problems) due to lack of parts.

[Tom R]

Unless you have paying clients, one or two Leica M bodies, properly maintained should provide dependable service and last for decades; this has been my experience anyway. I own two M4-Ps and one M4. The M4-Ps were purchased a long time ago, when I needed a 28mm finder and a working “hot shoe.” I purchased the M4 a few years ago thinking that I’d sell the M4-Ps and invest in more film, lab/processing equipment, etc. [Upon reflection, I decided to keep the M4-Ps in case anyone in my family (or nearest friends) would like to inherit these.] I retired in 2018 and have had all of these camera bodies CLA’d. I use at least one of these every week and, given my age, these cameras will likely outlive me.

I note that the OP prefers built-in meters. I have never used a Leica M with a built-in meter and have no opinion. I do carry a Sekonic meter that I use for flash and situations where I really do want to know incident light or reflective readings from various elements in the scene to average exposures, etc. 

If I had to purchase a Leica M body today, I’d look for a relatively “clean”(or later serial number) M4 (unless the 28 and/or 75 mm finders are needed), and be prepared to spend another $300+ (American) for a CLA.

[TomB_tx]

8 minutes ago, Tom R said:

If I had to purchase a Leica M body today, I’d look for a relatively “clean”(or later serial number) M4 (unless the 28 and/or 75 mm finders are needed), and be prepared to spend another $300+ (American) for a CLA.

Good reliable advice. The M4 I bought in 1968 is still solid, with one CLA service after I retired in 2009. I also collected a range of Ms (& Rs) after retiring and had most serviced so they would outlast me.

I'd rate my M6 (bought 1985) just as reliable as my M4 - except by my fault of leaving batteries stored in it which leaked...

The Leica R cameras I've had don't hold up as well. (Excluding the Leitz Leicaflex models.) My R7 & 8 are still doing well...

[FrozenInTime]

It is always comfortingly secure to carry two near identical cameras and spread the images across the pair - maybe one with a 28 or 35 and the other a 50mm.

The iPhone is also there as a backup to the backup.

For most daily situations missing out on a photo rarely matters. 

I can think of many other areas where fear-uncertainty-doubt ensures we maintain easy access to alternatives ( two cars, multiple bicycles, tennis rackets, prescription glasses, house keys etc. )

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[colonel]

one camera,  one lens

thats the way I roll

never had an issue in xxx years ....