ARMY EXCHANGE SERVICE

[Giuliobigazzi]

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Hello, can anyone tell me how the A.E.S worked in late 1945 and early 1946? 
Was it a sort of shop selling seconds/ old stock or was it possible to put in special orders? 
Thanks!

[zeitz]

The US Army Exchange Service is not "was"; the Army and Air Force Exchange Service still exists.  They are stores on Army posts (PX) and Air Force bases (BX) providing goods and services to service members.  Why do you think PX & BX stores sell seconds and old stock?

[Giuliobigazzi]

I have a Leica iiic that was delivered to the AES in 1946, I assumed because it has the stepped lever, that it would have been an old model. So members would purchase items like this from a shop? The lens attached  to the camera looks like it would have been a special request (in inches) or a factory test that then got sold. 

Thank you for clarifying 👍

[willeica]

1 hour ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

I have a Leica iiic that was delivered to the AES in 1946, I assumed because it has the stepped lever, that it would have been an old model. So members would purchase items like this from a shop? The lens attached  to the camera looks like it would have been a special request (in inches) or a factory test that then got sold. 

Thank you for clarifying 👍

The person who can help you with this is Bill Rosauer (derleicaman) whose father was with the US forces in Wetzlar at around that time. I will send him an email with a link to this thread.

As regards the camera, Leitz/Leica was recovering from the war in 1946 and anything is possible as regards models and specifications. For example, it took until about 1950 for the serial numbers of Leicas to become more or less sequential again.

William 

 

[zeitz]

5 hours ago, willeica said:

Leitz/Leica was recovering from the war in 1946 and anything is possible as regards models and specifications.

But not selling seconds.

[Giuliobigazzi]

Would this been a special request rather than a factory test surplus? ..if so, what for? Surely on an  f3.5 lens focus accuracy is not so critical 

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[jaapv]

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More likely sourcing parts from wherever they could find them and assembling cameras. This  was Germany a few months after the war. The supply problems must have been daunting.

[willeica]

4 hours ago, zeitz said:

But not selling seconds.

I have no idea what this about, but if you mean selling/trading items used and unused from stock or that just happened to be lying about, there was a long history of this in Wetzlar before and after WWII - there are too many 'unusual' cameras out in the wild for this not to have happened. I've asked Bill Rosauer to chip in on the Army Exchange Service as he knows a lot more than I do about this. 

4 hours ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

Would this been a special request rather than a factory test surplus? ..if so, what for? Surely on an  f3.5 lens focus accuracy is not so critical 

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Definitely a special order/application of some kind.

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

More likely sourcing parts from wherever they could find them and assembling cameras. This  was Germany a few months after the war. The supply problems must have been daunting.

 

Exactly the point I was making.

William 

 

[zeitz]

2 hours ago, willeica said:

I have no idea what this about

"Seconds" means equipment that doesn't meet normal production specifications.  Used, refurbished or upgraded would not be considered seconds.

[derleicaman]

As William noted, my dad was stationed in the area of Wetzlar post-war. He was at SHAEF HQ in the old IG Farben Office building outside Frankfurt, and also billeted in Butzbach and Bad Nauheim. Bad Nauheim was the town Elvis was stationed in some years later. He was there from early 1946, served out his service obligation and then stayed on for a couple of years as a civilian employee of the PX system. While in the Army, he was a photographer for Army Ordnance taking pictures with his 4x5 Graphic of a General Ford inspecting the de-militarization of all the war surplus we had in Germany. He would send his images back to the Pentagon. We were afraid the weaponry would be taken by the Russians when they invaded Western Europe, and the people at the Pentagon wanted to make sure Gen. Ford was doing his work over there.

He got a notion that he wanted a Leica, and tried to do so through the PX, but they were rationed on a lottery basis. Being from Chicago, my dad figured the fix was in on that lottery and that the officers would get priority. My dad being a lowly Corporal had to get a Leica by other means. He met with people in the black market, and I recall a conversation he had with Walter Heun of Leica New Jersey of the area they would both go to under a bridge in the Wetzlar area to buy and sell. Being born in Germany and emigrated when he was 2, returning 16 years later, he had the advantage of being a native German speaker. He would have my grandmother buy cigarettes and coffee at the corner store in Chicago, and then have it shipped to him in Germany. As you may know, nylons, cigarettes and coffee were powerful tools for bartering in Germany right after the war.

He also went to Haus Friedwart to see if he could get a Leica. He knocked on the door of the Leitz family home, and the butler answered. Asking his business, my dad explained he would like to get a Leica. According to my dad, Elsie yelled down the stair well, "Tell him we have no Leicas, go away!". It was a thrill to stand in Haus Friedwart years later with Knut Kuhn-Leitz (Elsie's son). My dad never got to go inside, even though we went to the Haus years later while at Photokina. My dad also met Dr. Paul Wolff, Pioneer of the Leica, in Braunfels where he was living after his home was destroyed in the bombing of Frankfurt. My dad traded Dr. Wolff tobacco for a 9cm Elmar, which I still have. My dad was embarrassed by this, and described Paul Wolff as being in poor health and a broken man, but he still craved his tobacco to smoke.

After separating from the military, my dad worked for the PX as a civilian setting up photo labs in the American Zone to process the GI's photos they were taking there.

BTW, the photos on the desk in front of my dad on the desk in the picture of him were from a side-job he had doing wedding photography with his 4x5. The photos here were taken at the posh country club outside of Frankfurt, Kronberg Castle. This castle was the home of the royal family of Hesse and used by US officers as an exclusive officer's club. Somehow, the American care takers, who were in the US military, found out that the crown jewels of the State of Hesse were hidden in the basement in the cement floor. The Americans found the jewels and sent most of them back to the States where they were caught selling them. A movie was made about this, the Hessen Affair, in 2009 starring Billy Zane.

When my dad returned home, he had obtained a Leica for himself and his older brother, a few lenses (including the 9cm from Paul Wolff), a Leitz enlarger and projector, and a Hensoldt rifle scope, which I still have. I got my Leica passion from my dad, and I hope you found this story interesting!

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[Rick in CO]

My father was also stationed in Wiesbaden in late 1945 through 1949.  He came out of flying B-25s and worked as a photo officer until the Berlin Airlift, or as it was called early on "Operation Vittles", returned him to the cockpit of a C-47.  He related to me that the Leica, Linhof and Rollei cameras were sold on a lottery basis with individuals having to sign up well in advance of the PX receiving any inventory.  A 1946 Popular Photography article describes 22% of Leica production going to the US and apparently 10% to the French in exchange for an allotment of lenses from the Schneider works which fell under their jurisdiction.  The bulk of the remainder likely went to the US and British PX's although I remember reading somewhere that the Brits and French could scarcely afford them.  This was to allow the German camera industry to recover and provide a hard cash flow into the post-war German economy.  

The B.I.O.S reports on the post-war German Industry describe the situation at Leica Wetzlar, and other German camera/lens manufacturers, as to the difficulty in obtain raw materials and finished parts from suppliers that had been deviated into wartime armament production.  Additionally, the labor force at Leica, and the other manufactures, had been depleted by the requisition of factory workers into the Wehrmacht.  Recovering those experienced workmen and the training of new apprentices would obviously take time.  

My father in 1947 went to the Leica School in Wetzlar, and a pix of him with his Leica: 

 

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Edited July 17, 2024 by Rick in CO

[George Collier]

What a great thread - the post war club.

My dad was also there, where I was born in 1947, near Fürstenfeldbruck (near Munich.)

This is taken with a 2 1/4 folder (Zeiss?) of us one evening after work.

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Edited July 21, 2024 by George Collier

[derleicaman]

23 hours ago, George Collier said:

What a great thread - the post war club.

My dad was also there, where I was born in 1947, near Fürstenfeldbruck (near Munich.)

This is taken with a 2 1/4 folder (Zeiss?) of us one evening after work.

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Amazing pictures, just great! How long was your dad stationed in Germany? What unit was he with? Just curious.

I have the letters my dad and his family wrote each other during the time he was in Germany. It was very funny reading them, especially the question from my dad's sister, "When are you coming home?" Things were good for a GI in Germany at the time, even after separating from the service.

[George Collier]

Just saw your reply.

I don't know when they (with my mother) arrived, but we left in mid-49, just after my sister was born, me in late 47. Maybe three years. He was a first sgt in an army air corps unit (I believe, I don't know when the Air Force was broken out as itself). It was at a large air field, I think the area was Oberpfaffenhofen, near Munich. We lived in an occupied private home and became friendly with the German family that owned the house. My dad had a Retina II and a folder and took an amazing amount of pix of us until we arrived in Japan (1958), at which point he bought an 8mm movie camera and I became the family photographer.

I am just now going through hundreds of rolls of film (mostly 35mm B&W), scanning some. I wish he were alive to see these.

Here is another at the house in Weßling Germany. Jeep in the background.

When and where was your dad there?

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[TXGR]

On 7/16/2024 at 1:48 AM, zeitz said:

The US Army Exchange Service is not "was"; the Army and Air Force Exchange Service still exists.  They are stores on Army posts (PX) and Air Force bases (BX) providing goods and services to service members.  Why do you think PX & BX stores sell seconds and old stock?

In fairness, the PX during the war and immediately following bares little resemblance to the corporate giants AAFES and NEX currently running PXs and Navy stores.

Even today, one can go into a PX and special order anything in the catalog (which is expansive), but whether it's every received is another matter. If an item is available within the region where one places the order, there's a decent chance they'll transfer it to the local PX or Shoppette. Outside of the region, that's very unlikely.

The regions also have some latitude in what they source locally. For example, in Europe, there are lots of chocolates, cookies, etc. that are not available in the US. Likewise, in Korea or Japan, PX customers will find some popular local items. However, this is also where the big difference is between the PX of yesteryear and today.

PXs today are very pricey. AAFES and NEX have "right of first refusal" for all sales on bases. They are private corporations with exclusive government contracts. The pricing is about 10%-25% over the street price in the US, frequently above MSRP. The real advantage to soldiers and dependents is familiar brands/models for North America, and convenient access. Especially in more, shall we say, 'remote' areas, the military are regularly restricted to base. So, yes, they could buy that Ritter chocolate bar in town for half the price the shoppette is charging for the same candy, but they can't get there. I find this especially nefarious.

While I am all for AAFES and NEX making money, I don't think they should be gouging junior enlisted who make sub-minimum wage the way a movie theater or amusement park or airport overcharge because they have a captive customer base. I find this especially galling as AAFES never pays rent, for electricity, and typically uses less expensive local labor to reduce costs far below what a stateside Wal-Mart or Krogers incurs. In many cases, they don't even pay for transport of their goods, so why are they charging more than retail locations in the US?

By contrast, the Commissary is run completely differently. They also have tons of US products (including refrigerated and frozen goods like local US ice cream brands [e.g. Blue Bell]), but they are at a discount over US retail prices by 5%-15%. They have some local goods, and those are usually priced competitively with what we see in local stores both in Asia and Europe. Where they carry the same items as AAFES (say deodorant, snacks, shampoo, pet food), they are always much less expensive than the PX. Of course, they are restricted in what they can carry and their hours are far more limited.

I am not sure when AAFES and NEX took over. My dad bought a Nikon in Okinawa around 1964. I don't think it was AAFES yet as the price was very good and products were Japanese domestic market models at a discount over the same camera in the US. I inherited the camera not too long ago. He said my mom was furious as he spent 1 or 2 months of his salary on it while my mom was stuck with a newborn on a base in California. Sixty years on, I guess all is forgiven now. The lens is an especially nice 50mm f/1.4 which is still incredibly clean and clear.

I can't speak to immediate post-World War II Brit and other PXs. In Afghanistan, the Brit PXs were much less expensive, but also had much nicer stuff. The Italian PX had lots of cheap luxury items (knock-off perfumes, fake watches, etc.), and very little in the way of things soldiers would want from home in a war zone. With the advent of online mail ordering, the role of the PX is waning fast except for things that can't be shipped.

[TXGR]

On 7/17/2024 at 5:14 PM, Rick in CO said:

[snip] 

My father in 1947 went to the Leica School in Wetzlar, and a pix of him with his Leica: 

[snip]

That has to be one of the coolest things I've read in a very long time. What an incredible family story, with photos to go with it. Thanks for sharing that.