Safe to Purchase July 2024?

[Bobonli]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I recognize this is probably an unanswerable risk-reward question but I have to give it a try: Is it safe to buy an M11-P in July 2024?

I've read every freeze/lockup/malfunction thread here. No need to regurgitate those other discussions. My evaluation is that things are getting better with recent firmware updates. But some are still having issues. I've avoided making a digital M purchase until recently when I started hunting for an M10P. My thinking was the platform was basically stable, I don't need the extra file size so why pay $9k and risk getting a lemon when I can't get the M10 for somewhere around half price. Black M10Ps, it turns out, aren't just laying around on shelves. There's going to be a wait to get one in good condition.

I was in a NY Leica shop yesterday and asked what the return rate due to freezing and other issues was. I wasn't expecting a 100% honest response from a place selling the cameras, particularly since I've never been in the store and I rolled in with an ancient film M. The response was that they have had returns (last year) but none lately. They aren't sure if its because of manufacturing or the firmware but no issues with people bringing them back lately. The advice was to rent one, making sure the rental house has updated the firmware, and test drive for a week.

The cynic in me assumes this is just damage control marketing and I should stick to my plan to hunt for an M10. The other part of me wonders if it's safe to take the chance and buy new, have a camera that's brand new, not X years old and whatever wear and tear associated with that prior use.

(FWIW, I may be over-worrying about freezing because AFAICR I've never had a digital camera freeze. I've had them act wonky but never be in a situation where they can't take a photo. I was watching an Alan Schaller video on YT and his camera froze during a segment and they left it in, showing him being frustrated. Made me realize that the issue impacts everyone, even Leica ambassadors!)

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[spydrxx]

Any camera can exhibit problems, including Leica digitals. Most problem comments one reads online, while focused on specific issues, are made by the small percentage of owners, not the majority of owners. So are you taking a chance with a purchase, sure! BUT, if you test out the camera and discover no flaws and have a reasonable warranty period, it seems that is the best one to do. Just like buying a car, a new home or any major appliance..

[maxpower]

For what it's worth the Leica Classic Store has two black M10-P's (with 12 months warranty) looks like.

Nobody here can answer your question with certainty and you have already read the threads so I'm not sure what you are expecting to clarify even more. I think the main take-away is that Leica is aware of it and actually trying to work on it. I think we can all agree communication about this could have been better. Some people lost faith in Leica, others havent. The M11 series are still selling fine from what I've heard so enough people must think it's safe enough.

But honestly a good M10-P is an excellent camera too, I've got both the M11-P and M10-P and enjoy them both for different reasons. You could then use the savings to get some nice glass and always consider upgrading the camera at some point in the future.

[GregGeneva]

I bought (in Geneva, Switzerland) a brand new M11P to replace my 7yo M10 and I am delighted. Never experienced any freezing. 
I use the Foto App a lot, an external SD card, two color coded lenses… never had an issue. 
I am very much impressed by the improvements  both regarding the photos (esp. in difficult light conditions) and the handling of the camera (speed of the App, easy access to the battery, etc).
 
Greetings from Switzerland.

[Bobonli]

1 hour ago, maxpower said:

For what it's worth the Leica Classic Store has two black M10-P's (with 12 months warranty) looks like.

Nobody here can answer your question with certainty and you have already read the threads so I'm not sure what you are expecting to clarify even more. I think the main take-away is that Leica is aware of it and actually trying to work on it. I think we can all agree communication about this could have been better. Some people lost faith in Leica, others havent. The M11 series are still selling fine from what I've heard so enough people must think it's safe enough.

But honestly a good M10-P is an excellent camera too, I've got both the M11-P and M10-P and enjoy them both for different reasons. You could then use the savings to get some nice glass and always consider upgrading the camera at some point in the future.

I hadn't heard of the Classic Leica Store, so thank you for that.I've been search in the individual US Leica stores and some well-respected re-sellers of used gear.

Yes, I know my question has no "correct" answer for the reasons you listed. I was soliciting some other points of view and wondering if there's a different perspective I hadn't considered. 

You mention having both and liking them for different reasons. Could you elaborate, please.

I have glass, a 35 and 50 'Cron that I'm happy with. If I had to upgrade it would be to a 35 Summilux but it's not a priority. 

[Bobonli]

3 minutes ago, GregGeneva said:

I bought (in Geneva, Switzerland) a brand new M11P to replace my 7yo M10 and I am delighted. Never experienced any freezing. 
I use the Foto App a lot, an external SD card, two color coded lenses… never had an issue. 
I am very much impressed by the improvements  both regarding the photos (esp. in difficult light conditions) and the handling of the camera (speed of the App, easy access to the battery, etc).
 
Greetings from Switzerland.

Thank you Greg. 

[goodbokeh]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I just bought a silver M11-P last week, manufactured in April, 2024. That's fun (for me) because 70 years ago in April, 1954 was when the M3 was introduced at Photokina, photo below. I also turn 70 in October.

I updated to firmware 2.1.1 first thing. Ignoring the voodoo settings recommended here ad nauseam, I've set up my M11-P the way I want to operate it with Fotos geocoding, a ProGrade 256GB V90 SD card with concurrent Internal RAW & Jpeg recording, etc. So far I've just been using the body with the lens I'll be the using most, my silver 50/1.4 Asph I. No problems so far, the camera runs really nice and the image IQ is impressive. 

BTW, my packaging didn't come with the Leica Fotos USB-C to Lightning cable. I don't know if that's because that cable is obsolete with newer Apple products or was forgotten in packaging. It's not listed in the M11-P box contents on the Leica USA website. I wouldn't use it anyway because I have a iPhone and iPads with USB-Cs and I still transfer photos the old school way to my Macs via SD card & reader.

Good luck on your decision Bobonli.

Doug

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Bobonli]

Thank you Doug and belated (or is it 'early'?) Happy Birthday

Edited July 14, 2024 by Bobonli

[goodbokeh]

43 minutes ago, Bobonli said:

Thank you Doug and belated (or is it 'early'?) Happy Birthday

Thanks for the early birthday wishes 🙂. BTW, the Leica dealer I spoke to before purchasing said similar things like your NY Leica shop. His experience was the M11-P was having fewer QC issues. The M11s before had more troubles but he had just one bad M11-P, a failed shutter, the rest were good with no returns.

[maxpower]

On 7/14/2024 at 5:49 PM, Bobonli said:

You mention having both and liking them for different reasons. Could you elaborate, please.

Sure, but it's not going to help you decide one way or another probably!

M10-P; mine is Safari so I prefer the style, aside from that I also like the concept of the baseplate (it's absurd and impractical and I like that), more importantly I strongly prefer the shutter (both sound and that you don't hear it open/close when you turn the camera on/off), oh and I slightly prefer the straight out of camera colours.

M11-P; I like the improved battery life, hassle-free GPS tagging through bluetooth and my phone, and overall image quality; I don't need 60MP but for example the improved dynamic range is nice to have sometimes.

It's all pretty small stuff and I would be very happy with either one if I only had one camera, but I like having choice. I started with M11, later added the M10-P (and even later replaced M11 with the M11-P).

[Knightspirit]

Just a quick comment on the freeze issue. Mine has only done it a few times, and should it happen, a quick flip of the battery lever letting the battery drop an 1/8 inch and shoving it back in is all it takes to be up and running again n a few seconds. Not such a big deal really unless it happens all the time …

[harmen]

The other way of looking at it is: what’s the worst that could happen?  How frustrated would you be if it occasionally misses a shot?  It’s a superbly enjoyable camera, so don’t let any shortcomings prevent you from taking pleasure in what it does well.  Think of it as a lens that maybe flares occasionally.

Edited July 17, 2024 by harmen

[Jim B]

On 7/14/2024 at 8:57 AM, Bobonli said:

I recognize this is probably an unanswerable risk-reward question but I have to give it a try: Is it safe to buy an M11-P in July 2024?

I've read every freeze/lockup/malfunction thread here. No need to regurgitate those other discussions. My evaluation is that things are getting better with recent firmware updates. But some are still having issues. I've avoided making a digital M purchase until recently when I started hunting for an M10P. My thinking was the platform was basically stable, I don't need the extra file size so why pay $9k and risk getting a lemon when I can't get the M10 for somewhere around half price. Black M10Ps, it turns out, aren't just laying around on shelves. There's going to be a wait to get one in good condition.

I was in a NY Leica shop yesterday and asked what the return rate due to freezing and other issues was. I wasn't expecting a 100% honest response from a place selling the cameras, particularly since I've never been in the store and I rolled in with an ancient film M. The response was that they have had returns (last year) but none lately. They aren't sure if its because of manufacturing or the firmware but no issues with people bringing them back lately. The advice was to rent one, making sure the rental house has updated the firmware, and test drive for a week.

The cynic in me assumes this is just damage control marketing and I should stick to my plan to hunt for an M10. The other part of me wonders if it's safe to take the chance and buy new, have a camera that's brand new, not X years old and whatever wear and tear associated with that prior use.

(FWIW, I may be over-worrying about freezing because AFAICR I've never had a digital camera freeze. I've had them act wonky but never be in a situation where they can't take a photo. I was watching an Alan Schaller video on YT and his camera froze during a segment and they left it in, showing him being frustrated. Made me realize that the issue impacts everyone, even Leica ambassadors!)

I really liked my M10P it’s the only camera I regret selling. The files were so beautifully smooth! Personally I wouldn’t buy a high res camera without ibis because I was prone to pick up camera shake under 1/500, and then I would have to bump the iso. But that was on my X1d and not sure if the sensor speed comes into play here,  but camera shake would be my biggest concern going over 45m….

Edited July 17, 2024 by Jim B

[Bobonli]

4 hours ago, maxpower said:

Sure, but it's not going to help you decide one way or another probably!

M10-P; mine is Safari so I prefer the style, aside from that I also like the concept of the baseplate (it's absurd and impractical and I like that), more importantly I strongly prefer the shutter (both sound and that you don't hear it open/close when you turn the camera on/off), oh and I slightly prefer the straight out of camera colours.

M11-P; I like the improved battery life, hassle-free GPS tagging through bluetooth and my phone, and overall image quality; I don't need 60MP but for example the improved dynamic range is nice to have sometimes.

It's all pretty small stuff and I would be very happy with either one if I only had one camera, but I like having choice. I started with M11, later added the M10-P (and even later replaced M11 with the M11-P).

Thank you. I’ve read that some people prefer the 10’s colors to the 11. A subsequent poster mentioned “not needing” the 60mp. I suppose you could select to shoot at a lower resolution and bump up when needed. 

[ldhrads]

4 hours ago, maxpower said:

Sure, but it's not going to help you decide one way or another probably!

M10-P; mine is Safari so I prefer the style, aside from that I also like the concept of the baseplate (it's absurd and impractical and I like that), more importantly I strongly prefer the shutter (both sound and that you don't hear it open/close when you turn the camera on/off), oh and I slightly prefer the straight out of camera colours.

M11-P; I like the improved battery life, hassle-free GPS tagging through bluetooth and my phone, and overall image quality; I don't need 60MP but for example the improved dynamic range is nice to have sometimes.

It's all pretty small stuff and I would be very happy with either one if I only had one camera, but I like having choice. I started with M11, later added the M10-P (and even later replaced M11 with the M11-P).

Sounds a lot like me. I recently was in Heidelberg with my M10-P Safari that I had bought on holiday in Wetzlar a few years back. Absolutely my favorite M camera of all the ones i've owned. I was not particularly interested in the M11. I stumbled into the new Leica Store in Heidelberg and I was rather taken by the M11-P. I didn't expect to be but the improvements in metering especially as well as other changes had me thinking a lot about it on my way home.  That was a month ago... I've kept the M10-P Safari, I don't think I'll ever get rid of it. But I've sold my M10-Monochrom as it did not get nearly the amount of use my prior Monochrom got and I've purchased an M11-P and so far am very happy that I made the jump. 

[SJH]

Have the M11P (on launch day), M11M and M11 - no issues.

Personally I think a very small number of actual M11 series camera’s have had some serious issues and I feel for them, but frankly I believe it’s been vastly overdone to death!! Buy an M11P with confidence, if you do get a rare rogue one just return it (take some shots on your phone) and get another one. For all the wailing take a look in the M10M forum and the ‘freezing’ posts are still going, again a small minority.

It’s a bit like the Ferrari forum, high £/$ price = very high expectations and to a certain extent that’s clearly right but everything is stuffed full of software & firmware now so it will go wrong just like your computer does sometimes!!

[brickftl]

my M11-P has a 12/23 build date. So far, knock on wood, no problems at all

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, brickftl said:

my M11-P has a 12/23 build date. So far, knock on wood, no problems at all

It has a 12/23 packaging date. It is built and assembled over a period longer than one day.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear