wlaidlaw Posted June 18, 2024 Share #1 Posted June 18, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) Look here https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/east-bristol-auctions/catalogue-id-sreas10979/lot-ec052d33-289e-4af0-98af-b1810103d887 The auction house, Auctioneum in Bristol is estimating £2000 to £3000 for this lot. In reality £2 to £3 would be over-priced. It is not even a good fake. Summicron lens during WW2?? The maker must have had a time machine, given this lens did not appear until 1953. Just how gullible do these auction houses think people are? I have had a run in with another local auction house before, when I told them on a viewing day, that two LTM "Leicas" they had were fakes from Russian FED cameras and pointed out how I knew. On the day of the sale they still said they were Leicas, so I stood up and announced I had already shown the auctioneer why these were not Leicas but Russian fakes. Embarrassed silence followed by the cameras rapidly being hustled out of sight and sale withdrawn. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/396381-hilarious-really-bad-fake-wartime-luftwaffe-leica-for-auction-estimate-%C2%A32000-to-%C2%A33000/?do=findComment&comment=5365491'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 18, 2024 Posted June 18, 2024 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Hilarious really bad fake "Wartime Luftwaffe" Leica for auction - estimate £2000 to £3000??. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pedaes Posted June 18, 2024 Share #2 Posted June 18, 2024 If you drop the Auctioneers an e-mail saying this they will probably remove it from the Sale. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 18, 2024 Share #3 Posted June 18, 2024 Even the best auctions perpetuate mistakes. The Leitz Photographica Auction earlier this month listed a Tewe lens as an Astro-Berlin lens (Lot 289). Almost all the big camera auctions treat the Sabre gunstock as if it were something special, which it is not (Lot 193 in this case), with a bogus description. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted June 18, 2024 Share #4 Posted June 18, 2024 Zorki-4 / Jupiter-8? They're not even trying, are they? Might as well slap a swastika on a Zenit E or something. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted June 18, 2024 Share #5 Posted June 18, 2024 Anyone who fails to win that one can always bid on this 'Leica military camera' a few days later (opening price £400). Do the auction houses not even do the most rudimentary checks? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/southgate-auctions/catalogue-id-southg10231/lot-86afe21a-2108-41f9-bd0f-b187008bdcb5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/southgate-auctions/catalogue-id-southg10231/lot-86afe21a-2108-41f9-bd0f-b187008bdcb5 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/396381-hilarious-really-bad-fake-wartime-luftwaffe-leica-for-auction-estimate-%C2%A32000-to-%C2%A33000/?do=findComment&comment=5365928'>More sharing options...
qqphot Posted June 19, 2024 Share #6 Posted June 19, 2024 (edited) Hilarious! They roughly ground off the logo and engravings but didn't even bother to remove the original KMZ serial number! It's an embarrassment for an auction house to list this. Edited June 19, 2024 by qqphot 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 19, 2024 Share #7 Posted June 19, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can 'understand' a poor description on ebay where 'buyer beware' certainly operates. Sometimes the seller simply gets things wrong, sometimes the description is clearly false. The inbetween desriptions where it is implied that an item may be something which it almost certainly is not, are more difficult especially from otherwise usually good sellers. But auctioneers in the UK should be bound by the Trade Descriptions Act and as such an obviously wrong or misleading description may well come back to bite them, so its a very strange thing to 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 19, 2024 Author Share #8 Posted June 19, 2024 I have sent the email below to the auction house. Leica camera – really ????? This is the worst fake I have ever seen, made from a Russian Zorki IV and a Russian Jupiter 8 lens. Anyone with any knowledge whatsoever of Leicas would spot this in a second or less. Just for a couple of basic problems. The lens is marked as a Summicron, the earliest versions of which date from 1953, so wartime, I don’t think so. The lens has anti-reflective coating. The only wartime Leica lens that has anti-reflective coating is the rare military version (black paint) 85mm/f1,5 Summarex. Just everything about this camera is wrong. It is not even a good fake and by the faking process, any value that a now reasonably rare good condition Zorki IV and Jupiter 8 lens would have had (£200-300) has been lost. I would not pay more than £5 for this horrible object. £2000 to £3000 is cloud cuckoo land. If someone actually bought this camera, they could sue you under trade descriptions legislation. As an auctioneer, the law would assume you have some level of expertise but this auction description does not demonstrate any whatsoever. Wilson 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted June 19, 2024 Share #9 Posted June 19, 2024 Well done Wilson! We should all do that when we come across a batch like this! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 19, 2024 Share #10 Posted June 19, 2024 Much as I applaud Wilson is doing this, my experience in pointing out mistaken descriptions is that few sellers ever bother to revise them. There is an item on ebay at the moment which has suggested makers and, whilst I have explained to the seller how, and how easy this is, to check, has not been revised ..... . Caveat emptor in such cases I would say. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 19, 2024 Share #11 Posted June 19, 2024 1 hour ago, pgk said: few sellers ever bother to revise them I bought a 150" f25 Zoomar Reflectar from an E-bay seller in the Spring. I knew it was missing external mechanical parts. When the lens arrived, I found the lens was missing the primary mirror and the correction optics! The seller did take the lens back and refund my money. But he listed it again at the same price and with the old description, knowing that the lens is worthless! 1 hour ago, pgk said: Caveat emptor So true, Paul. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted June 21, 2024 Share #12 Posted June 21, 2024 I emailed both the auctioneers listing the cameras above. The 'Leica military camera' is now showing as 'Withdrawn', so at least Southgate Auctions are paying attention. I don't think the 'Luftwaffe' camera was withdrawn by East Bristol Auctions unless they did it silently - the auction has now happened, but the hammer price is listed as 'passed', so I guess nobody was fooled (or at least didn't bid above the reserve). 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 21, 2024 Share #13 Posted June 21, 2024 This will go on until somebody who fell for it takes them to court for fraud. This phrase in the listing should be their legal nemesis: “Auctioneer's estimate 400 GBP - 600 GBP" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 21, 2024 Share #14 Posted June 21, 2024 On 6/18/2024 at 6:38 PM, Anbaric said: Zorki-4 / Jupiter-8? They're not even trying, are they? Might as well slap a swastika on a Zenit E or something. One oddity is that although the camera bears a serial number dating to 1963 the rangefinder-housing is of a type which was discontinued in 1960 after which year the 'frame' surrounding the viewfinder window disappeared. Quite the heap of junk. The auction house / this Lot should be reported to the relevant authorities; "Auctioneum is a member of SOFAA - the Society Of Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers". I doubt anyone will be taken-in by this item but one never knows... Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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