LPettigrew Posted February 21 Share #61 Posted February 21 Advertisement (gone after registration) Personally I've never had this issue. But, I guess, it may happen. The M is about intent, not safety nets. If you nudge the dial, that’s on you, not the camera. This is a part of how it trains the owner to be attentive and mindful, or use something else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 21 Posted February 21 Hi LPettigrew, Take a look here Exposure Compensation on Thumbwheel -- accidental nudge?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted February 21 Share #62 Posted February 21 Let he who never missed an exposure throw in the first pompous statement Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tseg Posted February 21 Share #63 Posted February 21 A few days ago I shot for the first time using a polarizing filter on my M11-D. All the images were dark, but could be corrected in post. I thought it was odd, but just figured it had something to do with the filter. A few days later I went to shoot, but without a filter. All the pictures were again dark... in a matter of seconds it hit me that I must have an exposure compensation issue. I rarely use exposure compensation, unless there is an obvious reason to. Good news/bad news. I quickly confirmed that my exposure compensation was set to -2.0, and must have been for both sessions. I then took the opportunity to learn that pressing the wheel in the M11-D can toggle between exposure compensation, ISO (if the ISO dial is set to M) and shutter speed (if the shutter speed dial is set to B). I have not played around with it yet, but I believe I can toggle to ISO or Shutter Speed, as long as neither dial is non M or B, and effectively de-activate exposure compensation with that wheel on the M11-D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Harper Posted February 22 Share #64 Posted February 22 3 hours ago, Tseg said: A few days ago I shot for the first time using a polarizing filter on my M11-D. All the images were dark, but could be corrected in post. I thought it was odd, but just figured it had something to do with the filter. A few days later I went to shoot, but without a filter. All the pictures were again dark... in a matter of seconds it hit me that I must have an exposure compensation issue. I rarely use exposure compensation, unless there is an obvious reason to. Good news/bad news. I quickly confirmed that my exposure compensation was set to -2.0, and must have been for both sessions. I then took the opportunity to learn that pressing the wheel in the M11-D can toggle between exposure compensation, ISO (if the ISO dial is set to M) and shutter speed (if the shutter speed dial is set to B). I have not played around with it yet, but I believe I can toggle to ISO or Shutter Speed, as long as neither dial is non M or B, and effectively de-activate exposure compensation with that wheel on the M11-D. Turning the wheel is always changing the exposure compensations, no way to change this. We are not here to talk about press the wheel, we are talking about TURNing the wheel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW0 Posted February 22 Share #65 Posted February 22 3 hours ago, Elliot Harper said: Turning the wheel is always changing the exposure compensations, no way to change this. We are not here to talk about press the wheel, we are talking about TURNing the wheel. Try reading what he said again. What he has just written will solve the problem for you. If press the wheel and put on ISO so it says Auto in the finder and then leave it there turning the wheel will do nothing. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DadDadDaddyo Posted February 22 Share #66 Posted February 22 (edited) On 6/10/2024 at 6:39 AM, jaapv said: Doesn’t anybody use manual exposure? I hardly ever use A as the traditional triangles and click counting are far more intuitive. And fixed ISO. All that automation and fiddling is so Sony. 'Zackly. I've noted the irony of this before. Set the thing on 'A' and then confer with other 'A' users about what sort of compensation to dial in depending on subject, subject contrast, lighting direction, lighting ratio between subject and background, etc., etc...? If you're taking the time to consider those things and the effect of exposure upon their treatment in your photograph, you've already lost what you've gained by setting it on 'A'. And then, having thought about those things, as a thoughtful photographer should, you attempt to deal with them, regain control, by dialing in exposure compensation? It's like being stuck in cruise control and constantly having to hit + or - to deal with changing road and traffic conditions. You'll be fiddling with it constantly. Thoughtfully applied manual exposure is exposure compensation, that is, it incorporates it into its very process. The only reason you need exposure compensation at all is that 'A' isn't terribly thoughtful. You have to lead it around by the nose to make it give you what you intend. And "What you intend" is the whole point. Edited February 22 by DadDadDaddyo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henners Posted February 22 Share #67 Posted February 22 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, DadDadDaddyo said: 'Zackly. I've noted the irony of this before. Set the thing on 'A' and then confer with other 'A' users about what sort of compensation to dial in depending on subject, subject contrast, lighting direction, lighting ratio between subject and background, etc., etc...? If you're taking the time to consider those things and the effect of exposure upon their treatment in your photograph, you've already lost what you've gained by setting it on 'A'. And then, having thought about those things, as a thoughtful photographer should, you attempt to deal with them, regain control, by dialing in exposure compensation? It's like being stuck in cruise control and constantly having to hit + or - to deal with changing road and traffic conditions. You'll be fiddling with it constantly. Thoughtfully applied manual exposure is exposure compensation, that is, it incorporates it into its very process. The only reason you need exposure compensation at all is that 'A' isn't terribly thoughtful. You have to lead it around by the nose to make it give you what you intend. And "What you intend" is the whole point. I used only manual for around 8 years for wedding and commercial photography. It became second nature and as I was shooting so much I barely thought about it. There were times when going from one extreme to another meant an extra second or two dancing with the dials, spinning the wheel to get from ISO 100 to 3200 etc, and I did miss moments occasionally from being rushed, but overall I felt I had a lot more control and speed. I no longer photograph weddings or commercial and initially was using manual for my personal stuff. But for travel and holidays I find using Auto way easier and quicker with EC. I know how the camera will read a scene with its meter and therefore can change aperture and dial in EC as I'm bringing the camera up to my eye. It's quicker and easier for me to have it pretty much dialled in perfectly first time and capturing the moment. The worst that happens is I get the EC wrong or don't have time to dial in EC and then it's usually in a perfectly acceptable exposure range that it can be pulled or pushed later in post. Not ideal but better than being wildly over or under. Both are great but I love Auto and EC. I may jump back to full manual just because I like the manual control and tactile feel of it. Like you said it feels more authentic and mechanical which is part of the joy of using these cameras in the first place. Edited February 22 by Henners Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Harper Posted February 22 Share #68 Posted February 22 12 hours ago, RobW0 said: Try reading what he said again. What he has just written will solve the problem for you. If press the wheel and put on ISO so it says Auto in the finder and then leave it there turning the wheel will do nothing. Maybe only works for M11-D, it certainly doesn't work for M11 or M11-P. Pressing the wheel doesn't toggle anything, but activate the setting you choose. No matter what function you choose to set the pressing wheel, turning the wheel always changes exposure compensation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW0 Posted February 22 Share #69 Posted February 22 21 minutes ago, Elliot Harper said: Maybe only works for M11-D, it certainly doesn't work for M11 or M11-P. Pressing the wheel doesn't toggle anything, but activate the setting you choose. No matter what function you choose to set the pressing wheel, turning the wheel always changes exposure compensation. Then on the M11P go into the menu and Customize Control and set the Wheel to no function. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 22 Share #70 Posted February 22 26 minutes ago, Elliot Harper said: [...] turning the wheel always changes exposure compensation. Only if you assign exp comp to the wheel. Just assign M-iso to the wheel and turning it will let you choose isos. But you know this already i guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mekener Posted February 22 Share #71 Posted February 22 My tumbwheel is set to exposure compensation. I have never pressed and turned the wheel by accident, my problem is that sometimes I forget I had set the exposure compensation previously. I always use it at night so I made a habit of checking it in the morning when I first turn on the camera. The soft release buttons are my real problem. They get loose getting the camera into and out of the bag. I lose them all the time... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted February 22 Share #72 Posted February 22 19 minutes ago, mekener said: The soft release buttons are my real problem. A tiny drop of the appropriate loctite or finger nail polish on the threads will fix that. Tiny amount. Apply with the point of a toothpick to the soft release threads. That's what worked for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mekener Posted February 22 Share #73 Posted February 22 11 minutes ago, marchyman said: A tiny drop of the appropriate loctite or finger nail polish on the threads will fix that. Tiny amount. Apply with the point of a toothpick to the soft release threads. That's what worked for me. Thanx a lot, I'll try that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Harper Posted February 22 Share #74 Posted February 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, lct said: Only if you assign exp comp to the wheel. Just assign M-iso to the wheel and turning it will let you choose isos. But you know this already i guess. Have you tried this yourself>? You can not assign M-iso function to the action of "turning" the wheel, you can only do that to the action of "pressing" the wheel. You go to menu 3-->Customize Control-->Customize Wheel, This is where you set up the function of TURNING the wheel, and there are only 3 options there: No Function; Exposure Compensation; Focus Aid. We are talking about two different things here: 1. one to be turning the wheel without pressing it. 2. the other to be pressing the wheel and then turning it. For 1, you can only do 3 things: no function, EV, Focus-Aid, and you do that by going to the menu as I indicated above. For 2, you can do lots of things including m-iso, and you do that by press and hold the wheel. I hope I made myself understood. Edited February 22 by Elliot Harper Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 22 Share #75 Posted February 22 To assign a function to the wheel, you have to press it anyway. Unsure to see your point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Harper Posted February 22 Share #76 Posted February 22 (edited) 6 minutes ago, lct said: To assign a function to the wheel, you have to press it anyway. Unsure to see your point. No it's not. You don't press the wheel to assign a function to the action of "turning" the wheel. You go to menu to do that. We are talking about the action of simply "turning" the wheel without "pressing" it first. Can you re-read this portion again before replying? Quote 1. one to be turning the wheel without pressing it. 2. the other to be pressing the wheel and then turning it. For 1, you can only do 3 things: no function, EV, Focus-Aid, and you do that by going to the menu as I indicated above. For 2, you can do lots of things including m-iso, and you do that by press and hold the wheel. Edited February 22 by Elliot Harper Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 22 Share #77 Posted February 22 Ouch... You lost me.... You edited your post above if i understand well. What you said in the post i was replying to is « turning the wheel always changes exposure compensation ». It does not so « always » as it depends on the function the wheel is assigned to. Can we agree on this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Harper Posted February 22 Share #78 Posted February 22 (edited) 11 minutes ago, lct said: Ouch... You lost me.... You edited your post above if i understand well. What you said in the post i was replying to is « turning the wheel always changes exposure compensation ». It does not so « always » as it depends on the function the wheel is assigned to. Can we agree on this? No, we can't agree on this. We are talking about "accidental nudging" the wheel. That's the context. So all the discussions were assuming the action of turning the wheel WITHOUT pressing the wheel first. And yes it does ALWAYS change the exposure compensation, and it DOES NOT depend on the function the wheel is assigned. I have to emphasize it again: We are talking about the turning the wheel WITHOUT pressing it first. and I am done educating you or disagreeing with you, my life is much better without a retired lawyer. Edited February 22 by Elliot Harper Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted February 24 Share #79 Posted February 24 (edited) On 2/22/2025 at 11:13 AM, Elliot Harper said: And yes it does ALWAYS change the exposure compensation, and it DOES NOT depend on the function the wheel is assigned. I've lost track... which camera? On my M11 I go to the bottom of menu page 3 -- Customize Control. Select Customize Wheel. Set it to No function or Focus aid. Now it wont change exposure compensation when turned. Edited February 24 by marchyman 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelu2010 Posted February 27 Share #80 Posted February 27 On 6/10/2024 at 9:37 AM, Datsch said: I would like to ask any M11 users who have exposure comp set on their thumbwheel -- does it get nudged by mistake, eg putting camera in and out of bag? If it does get adjusted, then the EV value is displayed in the OVF for 0.5s but that sounds rather easy to miss, especially if the camera is not held up to your eye at the time. I know that exp comp will be shown on the back screen, but sometimes people have that switched off and I am specifically asking because it looks like the M11-D will have full time exposure comp on the thumbwheel and I'd like to know if that would be a pain? (Especially for someone like me who never uses it ...) Thanks, Exposure compensation is also displayed in the viewfinder. The red numbers indicate if you are + or - 1.5 or other number of stops up or down. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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