Voigtlander Nokton 35/1.2 Aspherical II Leica M + Leica M240 - The problem of poor results.

[jarekzon]

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Good morning. I bought my first Lecia and was immediately disappointed. The Leica magic was gone. An excellent lens, the Voigtlander Nokton 35/1.2 Aspherical II, attached to the Leica M240 gives very poor results. For example, at f8 only the center of the frame is sharp, the edges and corners are soft and blurry. Additionally, there is a clear vignette. The same lens, attached to the Sony A7RII camera, gives excellent results. At f8 the frame is sharp, from corner to corner. The vignette is small. Can someone explain this to me? After all, the lenses were supposed to work better on Leica. What this is about ? My second Voigtlander Nokton 50 mm f/1.5 Asp lens already gives good results. In the attachment, I add small crops from the edge of the frame for comparison. The top one is Sony, of course, the bottom one is Leica.

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Edited June 2, 2024 by jarekzon

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[andybarton]

The M240 is from 2012. When was the A7Rii made?

[jarekzon]

What does it have to do with it ? Nothing. Such answers are useless.

[M Street Photographer]

I can't give a good explanation without the following information. Have you tried focusing with the electronic viewfinder or LiveView via the display or only with the rangefinder.

If you have only focused using the rangefinder, please try focusing again using LiveView or the electronic viewfinder to see if you then get a sharp image.

[jaapv]

 

28 minutes ago, jarekzon said:

What does it have to do with it ? Nothing. Such answers are useless.

Not at all They are shorthand for the fact that sensors have evolved immensely over the last decade(s). And images are produced by a sensor-lens system. One cannot be seen apart from the other. 

[jarekzon]

The year the camera was manufactured has nothing to do with the problem. Anyone who gives such a reason means they don't know what they're talking about and don't read with understanding. After all, the Leica can generate a sharp image in the center of the frame, which means that the problem is elsewhere. Besides, with the Nokton 50/1.5 it gives good results, so what does the year of production have to do with anything? After all, users of Leica cameras produced 20 years ago also boasted of great results and sharp photos from corner to corner, using a good lens. So the argument about the year of manufacture of the camera is ridiculous.

This Nokton is not that new and was not produced specifically for Sony. It has a Lecia bayonet it's a lens for a Leica camera, so don't tell me about the camera-lens system.

Edited June 2, 2024 by jarekzon

[jaapv]

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If you think Andy does not know what he is talking about, you are way out of line. We don’t tolerate this type of aggression in this forum. 
Anyway the explanation is extremely simple. You were lucky that you focused your Sony shot halfway out. This lens has a vintage-level field curvature and that is what you are seeing on the Leica shot which you focused in the center. Your observation is completely normal for this lens. Read up on its characteristics in reliable reviews:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1784972/

When used properly it will be better on the Leica than on the Sony. 

And yes, it is also completely normal for a wideangle lens to have weaker corners than its longer counterpart. 

[M Street Photographer]

On the M9 with the first generation of the 35. 1.2 I didn't have your problems. So it can be concluded that in your case there is a problem with the camera or the lens. Now with the m10r and the third generation of the 35. 1.2 there are no focus problems or blurry images either with the knife or via the electronic viewfinder.

In order to narrow down the problem, it is therefore essential that you focus the camera and lens again using LiveView or the electronic viewfinder to see if the problem is still there.

Edited June 2, 2024 by M Street Photographer

[jarekzon]

I also do not tolerate aggression towards me, so do not allow yourself to make such statements.

And if what you said is true, there is no way that Leica cameras can perform exceptionally well. I have a lot of cameras, including old ones, and photos at this level only come with basic lenses. So where is the uniqueness of Leica?

"And yes, it is also completely normal for a wideangle lens to have weaker corners than its longer counterpart.  " - Yes, everyone knows that, it was only said to show that the camera is functional. Thanks for the link.

Edited June 2, 2024 by jarekzon

[M Street Photographer]

If you are interested in resolving your problem here and we can help you, please remain objective, anything else will not help.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, jarekzon said:

I also do not tolerate aggression towards me, so do not allow yourself to make such statements.

And if what you said is true, there is no way that Leica cameras can perform exceptionally well. I have a lot of cameras, including old ones, and photos at this level only come with basic lenses. So where is the uniqueness of Leica?

"And yes, it is also completely normal for a wideangle lens to have weaker corners than its longer counterpart.  " - Yes, everyone knows that, it was only said to show that the camera is functional. Thanks for the link.

Moderation will be the judge.
 

[Boojay]

Im just not sure what it has to do with L mount lenses😉

 

[M Street Photographer]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Boojay:

Im just not sure what it has to do with L mount lenses😉

 

I don't quite understand your comment, what are you trying to say or where do you think there is a mistake?

[jaapv]

31 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

I don't quite understand your comment, what are you trying to say or where do you think there is a mistake?

I only just noticed - Moved to M lenses forum

[jaapv]

If you insist on comparing, please use sensors with similar resolution and filter stacks and similarly focused. 

The M 240 sensor is Leica's first CMOS M sensor, designed and built by smallish firms.  Sony is a Big `Boy with a large experience, but they were not able to meet Leica's needs, especially the IR filter and microlenses.

Leica's M sensors need to meet specific requirements in the corners and edges. However, the attraction of Leica is not specifically the sensor, but what they do with the output and the camera they pack it into.

[M Street Photographer]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Al Brown:

The third generation of this lens is something completely different to the first two.

I know the differences and I also said that I owned the M9 with the first generation of the 35 1.2 and there were no focus problems.And with my comment on the m10r and the third generation, I just wanted to show that there are no problems with them either. You have to try to narrow down the errors, which is why I asked to take another picture using LiveView or the electronic viewfinder to see if the problem still exists.

Unfortunately, the OP does not comment on this issue.

 

Edited June 2, 2024 by M Street Photographer

[jaapv]

If we study the comparison images carefully, we notice that the Sony image is marginally more in focus than the right hand side, the Leica image is just the other way around, suggesting slightly different planes of focus.

[M Street Photographer]

Yes, it is true that the quality of a VM lens on the Leica is better than on the Sony; there is something wrong with the whole structure.

I once had a similar problem with the 35/1.7. The quality on the Sony was visibly worse than on the M. When I then used the 35 1.7 with E mount, there were no more quality problems on the Sony.

Edited June 2, 2024 by M Street Photographer

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

Agree with both, but I think the main factor is focussing on different places in the image. 

[M Street Photographer]

Even if I repeat myself like a mantra, it is now important to take a comparison shot, focused with the rangefinder and focused with the Live View or electronic viewfinder, so that we can see if there is a difference.