M10-D, farewell.......

[Smudgerer]

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Well I know that I said more than once that I'd keep this camera for good, and I would have done so if in fact it could have remained "good", but it didn't. Another trip "home" to Wetzlar was prescribed so very reluctantly I traded it back to the Leica Store instead.

Having this M10-D was for me like adopting that wonderful rescue dog from the pound and you'd love the damn thing no matter how many times it ate the sofa because when it was good it was marvelous.

The M10-D was and has been in my opinion the best digital M so far, and yes I know that the MD owners will contest that for all the right reasons, many valid in my view but the slimmer size of the M10-D, and yes more than anything that love it/hate it faux winding lever / thumb rest which for me was a genius move on Leica's part won me over right away.....Also the M10's 24mp sensor has been perfect for 80% of what I needed a digital M to do, with the M10-R taking up the slack when really more Mp's and DR was required. However as much as I have loved owning and using the M10-D it has had the need to return to Wetzlar some five times now, and perhaps one last one to come. Various things went wrong with the camera, all electronics related, Leica left the M10 D's firmware development at zero, not one useful M10-D specific upgrade which I always found inexplicable, but then that's Leica and firmware, I should have known that would happen.

I sold it back to my regular Leica Store because once again the D was having main circuit board problems, for the third time, and they told me that these boards now were quite impossible to get replaced, so very reluctantly I traded for a lens and some €€€. It's a pity, but a reminder that digital cameras do have a finite life, no matter how much we want them to be around for longer..............RIP M10-D, "and thanks for all the fish.........."

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[RexGig0]

A well-phrased tribute, for your departed camera. I hope and wish that you will capture the most-beautiful images with your lens, acquired in the trade for your M10-D.

[jaapv]

I find it amazing/unacceptable that there is a spare part unavailability for such a recent camera. What about Leica's ten year service promises? 

[evikne]

I'm hoping for an M12-D that is super simple and rock solid. I'm afraid the M11-D, which probably inherits the complexity of the M11, won't be.

[Smudgerer]

A "lemon" that has had to return to Wetzlar four times, ( I made a mistake in the previous post, it's been sent for repairs four, not five times......but anyway too many )? It's spent a large chunk of it's "life" back with Mother I reckon...................I just felt that as much as I liked the camera someday sooner or later I was going to be told that it was "irrepaireable" and therefore a dead loss.

One time Leica service told me they had to keep the camera whilst a new board was being made at the Portugal facility and that repair took four months, pretty quick compared to these days I guess. It hasn't been always the same failure / problem with the camera but in a "shot-gun" approach they seem to prefer to replace the whole board anyway. I think another poster on the forum has commented that their M10-D is in Wetzlar now for a "board problem" too at this time. Good luck with that.

With the MD, the M10-D and the Monochroms Leica has proven that they truly can think out of the box, but the products can come out of Wetzlar "half baked" and invariably the after sales support, addressing any problems and ongoing firmware development if any is horribly slow or totally lacking as per the present M11 woes that despite plenty of evidence to the contrary Leica and some others seem unable to admit to.

It was a hard decision to let the M10-D go, but in all sense, ( if there is any in Leica addiction ), it was the right one.

Edited May 28, 2024 by Smudgerer

[WvE]

It's a risk we all are willing to take when buying a Leica. Poor QC, firmware issues, long repair times etc. and all of it at a premium price. 

[jaapv]

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As explained often this forum, also by members expert in the QC field, it is not possible to have the same level of QC on a product that is built individually and mainly by hand as opposed to one that is mass-produced. Leica’s QC is about what you can expect from a human-made product. 

[gotium]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:19 AM, Smudgerer said:

…Leica left the M10 D's firmware development at zero, not one useful M10-D specific upgrade which I always found inexplicable, but then that's Leica and firmware, I should have known that would happen.…

I agree that the M10-D was very nearly great, and could have been if they had made a few different design decisions AND updated it appropriately - but they didn’t. It seemed to me like a product they expected to sit on a shelf rather than be used for taking photographs. But there is a little niche of us who would like a camera like this for actual use. 

Another forum member mentioned that the circuit boards were shortly going to be unavailable and that the M10-D would then be largely unrepairable. Which is a real shame, but apparently true. 

So true that a digital lifespan is short, no matter how well-built or sexy the camera may be. 

[gotium]

On 5/27/2024 at 1:06 PM, evikne said:

I'm hoping for an M12-D that is super simple and rock solid. I'm afraid the M11-D, which probably inherits the complexity of the M11, won't be.

Agree this could be a real problem. How will you know when an M11-D freezes? 

Edited May 29, 2024 by gotium

[IkarusJohn]

@Smudgerer you fill me with fear!

The M10-D was the most expensive camera I have bought so far (the original Monochrom may have been a bit more).  Mine bricked last year ("sd error") requiring a full electronic replacement for USD2,700!  Leica repaired it in quick time, which was great ... but the WiFi code had changed in the upgrade and I couldn't connect to the Fotos App.  I lived with it for a bit, but found it annoying.

It went back to Wetzlar 4 months ago ...

Edited May 29, 2024 by IkarusJohn

[gotium]

21 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

@Smudgerer you fill me with fear!

The M10-D was the most expensive camera I have bought so far (the original Monochrom may have been a bit more).  Mine bricked last year ("sd error") requiring a full electronic replacement for USD2,700!  Leica repaired it in quick time, which was great ... but the WiFi code had changed in the upgrade and I couldn't connect to the Fotos App.  I lived with it for a bit, but found it annoying.

It went back to Wetzlar 4 months ago ...

omg, really

[Smudgerer]

3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

@Smudgerer you fill me with fear!

The M10-D was the most expensive camera I have bought so far (the original Monochrom may have been a bit more).  Mine bricked last year ("sd error") requiring a full electronic replacement for USD2,700!  Leica repaired it in quick time, which was great ... but the WiFi code had changed in the upgrade and I couldn't connect to the Fotos App.  I lived with it for a bit, but found it annoying.

It went back to Wetzlar 4 months ago ...

Well hello fellow M10-D "crack" user..........I know full well what you are going through, it's taken quite a few sessions at my solitary Leica M Anonymous meetings for me to let go of this damn camera, and like you seem to have done I have spent far too much time and money in trying to get it to play nice. The problem has been that the M10-D was simply the best digital M experience to date, a wonderful concept beautifully conceived but pretty much hobbled and then abandoned by Leica................I'm not "Leica Bashing" here, I have used M's professionally and privately for more than 5 decades, I am totally hooked on the bloody things, it's just that I feel that since Leica M's went digital a mindset at Leica has changed towards their products, longevity and support isn't there as it was before and now it's all about chasing the next best sparkling thing................Sadly, annoyingly, frustrating, but sure I am still looking for my next "fix", but only with used gear now, no more upgrading to the next whatever M is coming along, it just isn't worth it for me.

[WvE]

In the long run, a brand's reputation and success will ultimately depend on its quality and after-service. Perhaps Leica should dump the fancy luxury side stuff like the boutiques, the watches, and all other funny things, and use the freed-up resources exclusively on its core business, the M and the SL (and QC).

[leicaoptik]

Am 28.5.2024 um 09:33 schrieb Smudgerer:

A "lemon" that has had to return to Wetzlar four times, ( I made a mistake in the previous post, it's been sent for repairs four, not five times......but anyway too many )? It's spent a large chunk of it's "life" back with Mother I reckon...................I just felt that as much as I liked the camera someday sooner or later I was going to be told that it was "irrepaireable" and therefore a dead loss.

One time Leica service told me they had to keep the camera whilst a new board was being made at the Portugal facility and that repair took four months, pretty quick compared to these days I guess. It hasn't been always the same failure / problem with the camera but in a "shot-gun" approach they seem to prefer to replace the whole board anyway. I think another poster on the forum has commented that their M10-D is in Wetzlar now for a "board problem" too at this time. Good luck with that.

With the MD, the M10-D and the Monochroms Leica has proven that they truly can think out of the box, but the products can come out of Wetzlar "half baked" and invariably the after sales support, addressing any problems and ongoing firmware development if any is horribly slow or totally lacking as per the present M11 woes that despite plenty of evidence to the contrary Leica and some others seem unable to admit to.

It was a hard decision to let the M10-D go, but in all sense, ( if there is any in Leica addiction ), it was the right one.

Hi, I am also in love with my M10-D, bought it new from  Leica store in Munich.

 

How was your problem starting? Mine works fine so long...

Greetz Philip

[LDUNN1]

Hi, sorry to hear of others Leica woes.

The M10-D was my first (& so far) only Leica camera.
Touch wood, mine is working fine & has not required any return visits.

I'm purplexed at folk not liking the faux advance/thumb lever, to me it makes so much sense, that I think they should standardise it across the range! The one change I would do though is turn the lever into the main on/off switch. So many folk buy the thumb grips that slide into the hotshoe, who want & appreciate the enhanced leverage they get with it, & its the same for the faux winder. I started photography in my early teens in the early 80's, so grew up with 'The Lever' on my Olympus OM2n & OM4 (also great cameras!), & the lever on the M10 feels very 'natural' to me. 

Lack of LCD has not bothered me at all (but I don't 'chimp' much with my other digital cameras) & we never had an LCE 'preview' on film cameras in the past anyway. The manual focus is a non-issue to me having grown up with manual focus & I often adapt old manual focus lenses (including Leica M's) to more modern digital cameras (hope that doesn't offend anyone here!), I was concerned how I would adapt to a rangefinder, having only used SLR's in the past, but this was a non-issue too.

I only have one issue with the M10-D & that is the viewfinder info display - I don't like only having a red 'left' or 'right' pointing triangle indicating if I am over/under exposing vs what the meter thinks is correct, but it doesn't give me any indication how much over/under I am. in my older film cameras, you always had some indication of how many stops over/under from meter optimal you were. This is my only real issue.

The M10-D is just a dream in the hand though, the feel is wonderful. This is not about being 'seen' holding a Leica, I can be walking out in the sticks somewhere on my own, & just having the camera in my hand feels 'nice', really hard to put into words, but I don't get it with any of my other cameras. I very much like the all manual controls & back to film days, but without the hassle of having to develop & print film to see teh results.....writing this, reminds me, I have a Canon 7 rangefinder with a roll of film in since the days of lock down - much finish that & develop it!

Despite this, I have been contemplating if I should hold on to the M10-D pretty much since I first bought it, or if I should sell it. This is mainly down to the viewfinder info for me, maybe I just have not used mine enough, with it not being my only camera system (also have Sony & Fujifilm GFX....& technically, Canon Eos which the Sony replaced). Maybe if the M10-D were my only camera, & I used it more than I do, then I might have got past my issues with the viewfinder info. 

Good luck to those getting their cameras fixed, I don't think think is an M10-D specific issue though, I have a friend who bought a new M11 & that developed issues & had to be returned to be fixed.  

 

[jaapv]

There is an exact indication of over and under exposure. It is the same on all M cameras since the M6. 
Scroll down to “viewfinder displays”. 
https://leica-camera.com/sites/default/files/pm-92474-Leica-M7_Technical-Data_en.pdf

[Smudgerer]

1 hour ago, leicaoptik said:

Hi, I am also in love with my M10-D, bought it new from  Leica store in Munich.

 

How was your problem starting? Mine works fine so long...

Greetz Philip

Hello Philip, mostly the problems started with the camera not turning on, ( I always disliked having the on/off switch on the back of the camera instead of around the shutter release like all other Ms ), sometimes the shutter would not fire, sometimes the exposures were all over the place, once it would not shut down, etc etc..............all said by Leica to be related to main circuit board failures which was switched out at least three times.

[leicaoptik]

It makes me wonder that the mainboard is not quite the same as in the M10-P cameras, without the monitor attached...

Does the M10-D has its own unique mainboard?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[LDUNN1]

@ jaapv - thank you for the link.

That shows the issue I have I think. When you get just the triangle, you don't know how far over/under you are.

Older manual SLR film cameras I've used (like OM1 etc) have a 'swing needle' indicator so you can visually see how far away from correct exposure you are & know how far to rotate aperture or shutter speed controls. With the Leica, you just get a triangle when you are not already very close to correct exposure. I don't find it that helpful personally.

The other issue I have related with the viewfinder info, & I accept that this is totally me & my preferences, but if I want to dial in some exp comp, for example, maybe I want to shoot everything 1/3 or 2/3rds underexposed, to help protect highlights, then the over/under vs meter info is shared with the camera wanting to also tell me that I have 1/3 or 2/3rds exp comp dialled in, I find that gets in the way too.

I'm sure if this was my only camera & I was shooting alot, I'd eventually adapt & get used to it, but as I'm not using the camera daily, or even weekly, then I don't adapt to the camera so well & it remains a source of irritation & frustration to me. It's a small thing I know.

What is interesting to me at least, is that I thought moving to a rangefinder, which I have very little prior experince with, &/or not having an LCD 'might' give me issues, but the have not at all - but I totally missed that I might not get on with the viewfinder info display. 







 

 

 

[jaapv]

The old M response is: Count the aperture clicks when you go beyond 1 EV. 😉