Q3: The Last Leica Product I Will Ever Buy (**Jump ahead to post #141 by the OP**)

[SLamb]

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Thank you for the information @bobtodrick 

If we accept that dust will be in the environment where the Q3 is assembled, on the picture that I posted of the mark on my sensor, it looks like a grease mark or oil rather than a dust particle, which cannot be excused.

I have attached another picture here to show the mark on my sensor. I turned the shadow, highlight, black and white sliders to zero and upped the contrast to show it better but it is easily visible in the pictures of blue sky that I originally posted. 

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[Guest]

18 minutes ago, SLamb said:

Thank you for the information @bobtodrick 

If we accept that dust will be in the environment where the Q3 is assembled, on the picture that I posted of the mark on my sensor, it looks like a grease mark or oil rather than a dust particle, which cannot be excused.

I have attached another picture here to show the mark on my sensor. I turned the shadow, highlight, black and white sliders to zero and upped the contrast to show it better but it is easily visible in the pictures of blue sky that I originally posted. 

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What did Leica or the vendor say when you contacted them about this?

[SLamb]

I sent an email to Leica customer care with sample pictures and I'm still waiting to hear back. If I don't get a response today I will call the Leica UK online store from where I purchased the camera. 

[jjroroek]

 

last year ( i hade still my m10 then) I took 20,000 photos. Of those 20,000 photos, about 50 had a clear blue sky and an aperture of 11 or higher. 5 of those 50 photos were usable for other purposes. If I had found dust in those 5 photos I could have removed it quite easily inLightroom

That's what I will do if it bothers me on my new Q3. So I don't really see a problem,
also because the examples only became visible through additional editing afterwardsIf you make an effort, you can find a problem with every camera.
It would be a shame if the focus on those problems prevents you from enjoying the great qualities that the camera has

Edited May 22, 2024 by jjroroek
layout was bad

[SLamb]

I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence. However, if we just accept what shouldn't be acceptable at this price point then the situation will never improve. Leica must be made aware of these issues, asked to replace cameras if they are not up to the high standard the Leica itself has set and which we therefore expect, and try to ensure in the future that these issues are addressed during the assembly process. 

[Markey]

All manufacturers are cutting corners and Leica are no exception.

I drive a 20 year old Land Rover and only now am I having to have work undertaken on the chassis due to corrosion.

However with the newer models corrosion is setting in much sooner . The reason ; cheap imported steel.

Cutting corners and maintaining or some would say increasing their profit margin is the culprit 

Those days when you bought these goods for their quality and serviceability (also known as supportability)  have gone.

You need to justify the purchase in other ways.

[SLamb]

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1 hour ago, Corius said:

What did Leica or the vendor say when you contacted them about this?

Leica UK want me to take or send my Q3 to the store in Mayfair to have it checked, disassembled and the sensor cleaned. I have responded that I would like a new replacement Q3.

The technician that responded said it looks like dust. Given my pictures are the full frame taken at f/16 (where a dust speck would be smaller and more well defined) that is either the biggest speck of dusk ever to land on a sensor or it's a smear of grease or oil, as I suspect (especially as you can see colour and texture through it, unlike a dust spot which would be black). 

I don't hold out hope for a replacement, and if I don't get it this too may be the last Leica I buy. My M6, M8 and all my lenses were trouble free over the years that I owned them, so this is a huge disappointment. 

Edited May 22, 2024 by SLamb

[JNK100]

32 minutes ago, SLamb said:

Leica UK want me to take or send my Q3 to the store in Mayfair to have it checked, disassembled and the sensor cleaned. I have responded that I would like a new replacement Q3.

The technician that responded said it looks like dust. Given my pictures are the full frame taken at f/16 (where a dust speck would be smaller and more well defined) that is either the biggest speck of dusk ever to land on a sensor or it's a smear of grease or oil, as I suspect (especially as you can see colour and texture through it, unlike a dust spot which would be black). 

I don't hold out hope for a replacement, and if I don't get it this too may be the last Leica I buy. My M6, M8 and all my lenses were trouble free over the years that I owned them, so this is a huge disappointment. 

This seems a fair and reasonable response from Leica in my view.

As all your other Leica equipment were faultless, one issue which Leica will sort for you should not prevent you buying further Leica products.

I had a Fuji x100f with dust in the viewfinder which didn't stop me using Fuji....

 

 

 

[SLamb]

Whilst the response may seem to be fair and reasonable, the fact remains that it appears Leica, like many manufacturers now, rely on after sales service and the willingness of customers to be inconvenienced to cover over declining manufacturing quality standards.  If I was paying £500 I wouldn't be as concerned, but for over £5K I expect more, much more.

[Photon42]

6 hours ago, frame-it said:

and the X2D as well?

nope

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SLamb said:

Leica UK want me to take or send my Q3 to the store in Mayfair to have it checked, disassembled and the sensor cleaned. I have responded that I would like a new replacement Q3.

The technician that responded said it looks like dust. Given my pictures are the full frame taken at f/16 (where a dust speck would be smaller and more well defined) that is either the biggest speck of dusk ever to land on a sensor or it's a smear of grease or oil, as I suspect (especially as you can see colour and texture through it, unlike a dust spot which would be black). 

I don't hold out hope for a replacement, and if I don't get it this too may be the last Leica I buy. My M6, M8 and all my lenses were trouble free over the years that I owned them, so this is a huge disappointment. 

I received an email from Leica UK a week or so ago advertising free Sensor cleaning for M and Q3 while the camera is in warranty.

This seems to indicate that dust is to be expected with the Q3.

 

........

For spotless digital photography

If you own a Leica camera with interchangeable lenses you can benefit from two complimentary sensor cleansper calendar year during the warranty period. We offer a same-day priority service for customers who book in advance through the website. Cameras with fixed lenses also have access to our complimentary sensor clean during the warranty period. Please note, bookings need to be made in advance and the service takes two weeks. T&Cs apply*

Book your sensor clean http://image.my.leica-camera.com/lib/fe9012717c60017874/m/3/6fed2788-33e0-4978-bea7-8315696dac6e.gif http://image.my.leica-camera.com/lib/fe9012717c60017874/m/3/b57780f5-137c-4135-9b9d-26b3e0a2e6c6.png

[Photon42]

1 hour ago, SLamb said:

Leica UK want me to take or send my Q3 to the store in Mayfair to have it checked, disassembled and the sensor cleaned. I have responded that I would like a new replacement Q3.

The technician that responded said it looks like dust. Given my pictures are the full frame taken at f/16 (where a dust speck would be smaller and more well defined) that is either the biggest speck of dusk ever to land on a sensor or it's a smear of grease or oil, as I suspect (especially as you can see colour and texture through it, unlike a dust spot which would be black). 

I don't hold out hope for a replacement, and if I don't get it this too may be the last Leica I buy. My M6, M8 and all my lenses were trouble free over the years that I owned them, so this is a huge disappointment. 

Hard to say what is better. If the technician knows what he is doing I would probably go down that route. Then at least you know the issue is addressed. Else your replacement may suffer only from different spots in different places ... Once the camera is cleaned and you've used it for some months, the frustration most likely is gone.

[SLamb]

That is a good service to offer, especially for the fixed lens Q cameras.  However, not a service I expected to need after six weeks of ownership.

[SLamb]

1 minute ago, Photon42 said:

Hard to say what is better. If the technician knows what he is doing I would probably go down that route. Then at least you know the issue is addressed. Else your replacement may suffer only from different spots in different places ... Once the camera is cleaned and you've used it for some months, the frustration most likely is gone.

I would hope the technician wouldn't be there if they didn't know what they were doing.  I have no choice but to send it away.  I am not happy about it, but I have no choice.

[LocalHero1953]

I guess if you find a problem like dust in a Q that is visible in specific scenes, at small apertures and specific processing, then one response is to say you're not buying another Leica ever again.

But if those really are unusual scenarios for you, then what? If you bought a Leica for the pleasure of shooting with it, are you really going to be happy buying a Nikon/Canon/Sony/Fuji instead? If you are happy with them, why did you spend so much money on a Leica in the first place? And surely no one on this forum will admit to buying a Leica for its cost or prestige?

I think @fotografr found a good answer. Take a night off, have a glass of something, chill, and then wonder if your first response will bring you more or less happiness in your life.

Personally I don't associate high prices with perfection but rather with opportunities and enjoyment. Dust on a sensor that I won't see 95% of the time, and that I can hide on the occasions I do see it - well that just has no impact on my enjoyment.

YMMV, whatever floats your boat etc

[SLamb]

All good points. 

I purchased the Q3 as I find it difficult to carry around my Nikon equipment, and with a lot of trips planned I wanted something lighter, more compact and with the best image quality possible. 

Having previously owned Leicas I researched and found the Q3 would meet my needs. One factor was that by not having to change lenses I wouldn't have to do sensor cleaning. 

I guess I'm just disappointed that I have something on the sensor, or maybe the rear lens element, in a new camera that has hardly been used. 

I agree that the price doesn't guarantee perfection, but dust inside a sealed single lens camera isn't good at any price, especially Leica price. 

[JNK100]

1 hour ago, SLamb said:

Whilst the response may seem to be fair and reasonable, the fact remains that it appears Leica, like many manufacturers now, rely on after sales service and the willingness of customers to be inconvenienced to cover over declining manufacturing quality standards.  If I was paying £500 I wouldn't be as concerned, but for over £5K I expect more, much more.

What is your justification for claiming 'declining manufacturing quality standards '?

[SLamb]

I see it it many sectors with which I have dealings.  I am not saying Leica has declining quality standards, I'm saying it appears that way. I've seen it many times over the years, especially when demand for a product is very high. 

Maybe Leica does things the way it has always done, but as a consumer I'd like to think the premium I pay for the highest quality camera would cover even the most basic things like not having dust or smears inside a sealed camera. 

[PeterGA]

9 hours ago, frame-it said:

and the X2D as well?

I've only had my X2D for a few months and noticed dust spots the other day doing a B&W conversion against a 'white' sky - most were easily blown off but I will need to get a wet wipe kit to remove one pesky little fella. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[SLamb]

That's fair enough on an interchangeable lens camera. I've cleaned my Nikon's a few times over the years.