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Q3: The Last Leica Product I Will Ever Buy (**Jump ahead to post #141 by the OP**)


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I followed the threads about various problems with the Q3 and M11 in an effort to help me decide which camera to upgrade to. I ended up with a new Q3 which has been out of the sealed box for 10 days. A couple of days ago I posted a shot and someone pointed out what looked like a dust spot in the sky. I decided to test the sensor so went out and shot some sky images and couldn't find any spots. The problem was that I was shooting with a large aperture, so the dust didn't show up. Today I repeated the test with a small aperture and was absolutely blown away. My camera has not been exposed to dust and has only had about 150 shots taken with it. Today I did a b&w conversion with Silver Efex and used the "High Structure/Smooth" setting. When examining the sky portion of the image I find dust specs all over the sensor. This is not pixel peeping. They are quite visible at normal size as you can see below. This camera came in a sealed box so this is how it was packed from the factory. Where is the quality control we pay a premium price for?

I can mitigate the effect by shooting at larger apertures and just try to remember to check my images closely before printing or posting, but it's outrageous that I'd have to do this. I have completely lost confidence in Leica. My other option, of course, is to just return the camera to the dealer for a refund. I would not ask for a replacement because I wouldn't trust it to be any better. The sad thing is that I love the image quality, sans dust spots. This is discouraging, to say the least!

 

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So, as one would, I decided to take some pictures of a blue sky at f16. Not something I'd ever really do, but wanted to see if my sensor is clean. 

I have a big mark on the sensor that shows up on every picture, so it looks like mine will be going back to Leica to have something done about it.

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Posted (edited)

I feel for you…but we regularly send back fixed lens cameras such as the Fuji  X100’s with the same issue.

It isn’t just a Leica problem.  I think most cameras can have this issue…why it is more ‘noticeable’ with Leica is at their price point most buyers are very knowledgeable and will pick up on this, whereas less knowledgeable will not see it.

Edited by bobtodrick
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1 hour ago, fotografr said:

I followed the threads about various problems with the Q3 and M11 in an effort to help me decide which camera to upgrade to. I ended up with a new Q3 which has been out of the sealed box for 10 days. A couple of days ago I posted a shot and someone pointed out what looked like a dust spot in the sky. I decided to test the sensor so went out and shot some sky images and couldn't find any spots. The problem was that I was shooting with a large aperture, so the dust didn't show up. Today I repeated the test with a small aperture and was absolutely blown away. My camera has not been exposed to dust and has only had about 150 shots taken with it. Today I did a b&w conversion with Silver Efex and used the "High Structure/Smooth" setting. When examining the sky portion of the image I find dust specs all over the sensor. This is not pixel peeping. They are quite visible at normal size as you can see below. This camera came in a sealed box so this is how it was packed from the factory. Where is the quality control we pay a premium price for?

I can mitigate the effect by shooting at larger apertures and just try to remember to check my images closely before printing or posting, but it's outrageous that I'd have to do this. I have completely lost confidence in Leica. My other option, of course, is to just return the camera to the dealer for a refund. I would not ask for a replacement because I wouldn't trust it to be any better. The sad thing is that I love the image quality, sans dust spots. This is discouraging, to say the least!

 

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Holy crap!

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Posted (edited)

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1 hour ago, bobtodrick said:

I feel for you…but we regularly send back fixed lens cameras such as the Fuji  X100’s with the same issue.

It isn’t just a Leica problem.  I think most cameras can have this issue…why it is more ‘noticeable’ with Leica is at their price point most buyers are very knowledgeable and will pick up on this, whereas less knowledgeable will not see it.

I'd be much less upset about it if not for the fact that Leica advertises the Q3 as weather and dust sealed. I know this stuff didn't get on the sensor in the short time I've been using it, so that tells me the factory where these are assembled has very lax dust control.

I'd also be less upset if Leica Service had a reasonable turnaround time. Would they expect me to go without the camera for 7 months while it sits in the queue? I wonder.

Edited by fotografr
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When you think about all of the issues Leica has had with digital cameras over the years...  the purple-black of the M8, the M9 sensor corrosion issue... I seem to recall issues with the M240 when it was released, and the freezing issues with the M11...  while I'm disappointed, I can't say I'm surprised.  Send it back to the dealer and see if the replacement has the same issue.   The one you got may have just been THE sensor that wasn't properly cleaned before the camera was buttoned up.

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11 minutes ago, fotografr said:

I'd be much less upset about it if not for the fact that Leica advertises the Q3 as weather and dust sealed. I know this stuff didn't get on the sensor in the short time I've been using it, so that tells me the factory where these are assembled has very lax dust control.

I'd also be less upset if Leica Service had a reasonable turnaround time. Would they expect me to go without the camera for 7 months while it sits in the queue? I wonder.

I agree with you about service.  Leica used to be one of the best.  Now for most makes we quote weeks for service…with Leica we quote months 😔

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Posted (edited)

I am sorry to hear this from you.  I know the excitement of receiving a new camera, but then to have it dashed by this.  My new Nikon D600 had the oil problem with the shutter so it had to go in for repair the first week.  My Nikon D750 had the shadow problem so it, too went it for repair.  Compliments to Nikon, the cameras were gone less than two weeks, but it took some of the thrill away.

So, now I am afraid to go look at my Q3 at small aperture, blue sky situations.  I must say I have not noticed any problems with mine and I have had it since August, but I don't know if I will go looking for a problem I have not noticed to date.  Scaredy cat.  Hopefully yours is the exception, the vastly high exception, and not some systemic problem, and you can get it replaced in a timely manner rather than having to send it in for repairs.  The Leica store in Bellevue, WA had a 30 day return policy, but at the time of course there were no replacements to be had as I waited 4 months for mine.  Not sure what the supply chain is today.

Edited by Aram Langhans
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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Waiting for the gaslighting team to explain this is a feature.

Rather more interesting would be a thread where we are invited to post similar images at small apertures with the same post processing as Brent. Let's see which cameras (any brand) don't have this issue - under these same conditions.

I'll try tomorrow with my Q2 and SL2-S. TBH I don't know how they'll perform, but I remember seeing something similar, under the same small aperture, high structure processing of an empty sky, in my M240, SL601 and OM5ii - after I cleaned the sensors. But then I don't shoot and process like that, so I live with it (or rather live with and not notice it).

No, not a feature - if it interferes with your normal photography and it's in a camera where you can't clean the sensor like the Q then it is something to worry about and get sorted. Otherwise.....

Edited by LocalHero1953
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I would hardly dare to buy a camera that I couldn't clean the sensor on myself. I suspect that sooner or later there will be dust, no matter how dustproof the camera is said to be.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, evikne said:

I would hardly dare to buy a camera that I couldn't clean the sensor on myself. I suspect that sooner or later there will be dust, no matter how dustproof the camera is said to be.

Virtually all compact non-interchangeable lens digital cameras, be it Leica, Canon, Fuji or any other develop this problem over TIME.
My G3X took 8 years to get a spot on the sensor. Just a spot, no fine dust. But fresh out of the box... that's an entirely different chapter altogether.

Edited by Al Brown
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Dust at f/16 happened to me so often that i don't know what to say other than i feel sorry for Brent and i would return the camera for a replacement given it is a fixed lens one. As for getting a refund, it depends on the applicable law but i would not hold my breath.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, fotografr said:

My camera has not been exposed to dust and has only had about 150 shots taken with it.

 

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It's possibly dust trapped inside Before the camera was sealed, if you use lightroom, set dehaze to max and zoom in to check, you might see a few dust spots with trails.

 

whenever i get a new camera, i take a lot of shots especially at f11 or higher specifically for this reason, and i always keep those pics for "reference"

Edited by frame-it
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31 minutes ago, frame-it said:

It's possibly dust trapped inside Before the camera was sealed, if you use lightroom, set dehaze to max and zoom in to check, you might see a few dust spots with trails.

 

whenever i get a new camera, i take a lot of shots especially at f11 or higher specifically for this reason, and i always keep those pics for "reference"

I'm quite certain the dust was trapped in the camera before sealing. I've done nothing since opening the box that would create any dust issues. I just tried your dehaze suggestion and the result was not pretty.

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The image below is the one I posted that alerted me to the dust. Aram was the one to point out that there appeared to be a dust spot and he was right, however, when looking more closely at the image (not pixel peeping) the spots I've circled were very apparent.

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Leica really ought to bring in some process control consultants from Japan i.e. Panasonic, to look at manufacturing floor QC and as well as order fulfilment and repair scheduling flows ; these are not difficult concepts.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, fotografr said:

the result was not pretty.

yes i can imagine..ive seen a few cameras [of friends] canon & sl2 that have dust trapped inside, 99% before the sensor cover glass was attached, but only visible via extreme clarity and dehaze on an f11++ shot in LR

Edited by frame-it
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