Buying an M lens in Japan

[suvomitra]

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If anyone from the UK/EU has experience of buying in Japan, please can I get some advice? I will have some time in Tokyo after a work trip in June, and the exchange rate has never been better. I will have time to look around in a few places in Akihabara and Shinjuku. I know it’s great there for used kit but it’s the new 50mm I’m after. A quick Look on the Map Camera website suggests that it would cost only 3/4th of the UK price if I could get the 10% tax waived. My questions are:

1. Does it matter which shop as long as they have stock?

2. What’s the process for getting the tax waiver?

3. Does it have to stay packages as bought until I clear customs on the way home?

4. Are there issues when arriving home?

I’ve put UK/EU as the rules on things like this are likely not so different (yet). I also assume Leica’s warranty is not linked to the country of purchase.

Thanks!

 

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[nitroplait]

1. The shop where you do the purchase has to offer tax free refund.

2. Ask for the tax free reduction (passport required)

3. Last year I got the deductions in the shops. You are normally instructed to keep goods and paperwork together until departure and be prepared to show it, but there was no check at departure.
I used my items in Japan. But you should be able to prove that you are bringing them out with you on departure - in principle. 

4. Check local rules and consult your consciousness- you are normally required to pay local VAT and Tax on imported items above a certain value. If you didn’t declare and are picked out at the customs, you will normally be fined.

Edited May 1, 2024 by nitroplait

[Mucca244]

It might also be worth heading over to Ginza. There is a camera shop called Katsumido next to Nissan crossing. They had a wide selection of new and used Leica cameras and lenses 

https://www.katsumido-camera.com

[burchyk]

Just came back last week.

MapCamera has great deals on Voigtlanders. I've got 3 new at about 1/2 UK price. Don't recall Leica lens prices, but remember that M11M was about 2k cheaper.

They mentioned that the warranty was only valid in Japan, but it might have been just the store specific one.

They give you tax rebate right at the shop. You need to provide the passport.

I've kept the paperwork and chucked the boxes as they took too much space.

At the airport tax stand they only asked to scan my passport and did not check anything.

I've not declared anything in the UK.

(usual disclaimer that I'm not qualified to provide tax advice)

[Segal]

I've seen people use an app for tax refunds last time I was in Japan last year, but not all stores support it.

[Danner]

I'd stick it on the camera, and head home.  Happy travels.

Also, I have purchased several cameras and lenses from Japan, and have never had any import duty on anything.  It simply shows up on my doorstep.

Edited May 3, 2024 by Danner

[nitroplait]

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17 hours ago, Danner said:

…Also, I have purchased several cameras and lenses from Japan, and have never had any import duty on anything.  It simply shows up on my doorstep.

Yes, but you do not live in EU/UK. Close to nothing gets sent/shipped into the EU without at least VAT being added either at the trade portal, eBay for example, or at the border.

—-

Most countries will have a limit to the value of goods you can bring with you home from a trip untaxed. Some allow you to bring home goods of a higher value than the limit if purchased for personal use during the trip (a replacement for a broken suitcase or dress etc.).

One may argue a lens, camera or watch could fall into the latter category, but I am sure your local EU/UK customs have a policy, as I am equally sure many have used that argument over time. 

Upon re-entry, how would the customs know you purchased a lens abroad? If your suitcase gets picked out for examination, packaging and receipts are a sure giveaways. If the receipt shows VAT deduction you will have a weak argument for having bought it out of necessity during the trip because most countries usually require goods to be exported un-used to qualify for VAT deduction.

Also, the 10% VAT is relatively new in Japan and if Japanese authorities suspect the tax free system is abused (on suspicion a substantial amount of the tax deducted goods stays in Japan), then they can implement departure check any time - as that is already stated in the rules you should expect to comply with.

That is why checking the actual procedure in the specific airport as close to departure as possible is essential - if you want be fully informed.
What someone experienced in Tokyo, Haneda one month may not be what you experience the next in the same or another airport. 

 

Edited May 4, 2024 by nitroplait

[suvomitra]

Thank you all for your thoughts. I’ve thought about duty and vat. I look for local deals on items with local warranty as this supports the local distributors/dealers who would provide any service. With Leica, my experience is that the work just gets sent to Germany. Also, the manufacturer’s warranty isn’t local. I’ve been flying in and out quite a bit recently and can’t remember seeing a soul in the customs areas. They are quite thorough on goods imported by mail/courier but I’m not sure they’re making any effort on personal use items carried physically. 

[nitroplait]

6 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Just don’t buy Sony in Japan. Their menus from the Alpha cameras are in Japanese only and cannot be set to any other language.

Correct! Same goes for several other brands. Panasonic/Lumix comes to mind. - and no, it cannot be remedied by installing intentional firmware.

[Xavier]

On 5/4/2024 at 1:27 PM, nitroplait said:

Upon re-entry, how would the customs know you purchased a lens abroad? If your suitcase gets picked out for examination, packaging and receipts are a sure giveaways. If the receipt shows VAT deduction you will have a weak argument for having bought it out of necessity during the trip because most countries usually require goods to be exported un-used to qualify for VAT deduction.

I do not have answers to all questions, but have some recent experience, which might help.

I traveled to Japan in March, and my camera bag started to show very strong wear. I bought a new one in Ginza at the Peak Design store. I was given an immediate 10% VAT deduction and they said that I could use it right away (which I did). I did not know about this specific rule about replacing broken items (which it technically was) nor whether my country would have accepted that argument. I checked the limit on tax free import which was 430 €, which was above the total amount of all the items I purchased. I few from Haneda and was not checked at all.

I would not have bought a lens as I would not be willing to go through all the complications and it would not save me much money if any.

[benqui]

If you are in Tokio, go to Kitamura Camera. They have a lot of Leica camera and lenses (some used lenses for a good price) and some very very very  expensive (but beautiful) special editions. The staff offers tax refund

[BillCB]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:55 PM, Danner said:

I'd stick it on the camera, and head home.  Happy travels.

Also, I have purchased several cameras and lenses from Japan, and have never had any import duty on anything.  It simply shows up on my doorstep.

Me too - I'm in Canada.

[suvomitra]

5 hours ago, benqui said:

If you are in Tokio, go to Kitamura Camera. They have a lot of Leica camera and lenses (some used lenses for a good price) and some very very very  expensive (but beautiful) special editions. The staff offers tax refund

Yes, I’ve looked at Kitamura Shinjuku and plan to visit. It will be close to where I’ll stay while in Tokyo. I’ve watched Japan Camera Hunter’s YouTube episode about it. Looks more like a museum than a shop, especially the Leica section. Maybe I’d be better off targeting interesting used items while I’m there. 

[benqui]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb suvomitra:

Yes, I’ve looked at Kitamura Shinjuku and plan to visit. It will be close to where I’ll stay while in Tokyo. I’ve watched Japan Camera Hunter’s YouTube episode about it. Looks more like a museum than a shop, especially the Leica section. Maybe I’d be better off targeting interesting used items while I’m there. 

They have a lot of used Leica camera gear not only the high price special edition, e.g. „normal“ 50 Summicrons….

[blackdot]

On 5/6/2024 at 5:57 AM, suvomitra said:

Yes, I’ve looked at Kitamura Shinjuku and plan to visit. It will be close to where I’ll stay while in Tokyo. I’ve watched Japan Camera Hunter’s YouTube episode about it. Looks more like a museum than a shop, especially the Leica section. Maybe I’d be better off targeting interesting used items while I’m there. 

The big Kitamura east of Shinjuku Station seems to be priced for tourists, especially on Leica gear. Head to the west side to Map and Lemon, and the much smaller Kitamura shop there. Also look at Sukiya and Lemon in Ginza. 

[nitroplait]

Kitamura’s flagship store sells only the best samples of their used inventory (and “junk”). They are used to tourists and have English/Chinese speaking personnel- which is unsual in Tokyo. Anyway, I don’t think their pricing is higher than other Tokyo shops with comparable condition items - a lot of the stuff sold in the flagship store has been serviced and comes with paperwork. Tokyo dealers seems to be extremely price coordinated to the extent that price shopping for a better deal, once you have found something you like, is mostly waste of time.

Lemon-sha sells mostly on consignment and if a seller is eager to get cash fast, some things can sell lower than the average Tokyo pricing, but be aware that there is likely no warranty and no returns permitted, so check before you leave the shop. 

Edited May 7, 2024 by nitroplait