Why Do I Have Such Difficulty with the 28mm FL?

[newtoleica]

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I shoot street with a Q2 and am M10-P. On the M I almost exclusively use the Summilux 24mm, occasionally the 35, but practically never anything beyond and never a 50.

The Q2 works fine for me lens wise but what lets it down a bit in my view is the AF (MF on the M faster and more reliable) and noise (fixable in processing using AI Denoise) - the M10 files are far more malleable. 

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[lencap]

I appreciate the replies.  Thank you.  I would love to have the 28mm work for me, but as I've mentioned it doesn't seem to be working.  I've tried many of the suggestions you've provided - squatting down to be more aligned with the subject's waist than their eyes, various cropping techniques, and much more.  It's me.  

The SL2-S is a fine tool, but as has been said by many, it's not a lightweight inconspicuous tool.  This will sound like heresy, but I recently bought a Nikon D5600 and kit zoom lens from the Nikon Refurbished department, and frankly it has the right size and zoom range to do quite a lot.  The issue is that I view it as an appliance, not a creative tool.  That's likely my issue, not the camera, but reverting back to a M,A,S,P dial and having to dive deeply into a vast menu array hasn't been much fun.

So, for now, the need for a lightweight alternative is met, but using it is the next hurdle to overcome.  And, to tempt me further, there's a used Q2 for sale on a local For Sale website.  The Leica addiction is hard to overcome.... 

[Markey]

Another vote for trying a CL .

I say this coming from a view that intended to trade in my CL kit  (18/23/35/60/55135) for a Q3 until I had a play with one.

I was simply doing so to cut down on kit but I`m now far from convinced that I`d be doing the right thing.

The CL offers far more versatile and probably offers reasonable image quality compared to the Q although I can`t say that I spent long enough time with the Q3 to confirm that.

I only post on social media these days.

 

[kkcsm]

On 4/24/2024 at 6:24 PM, lencap said:

I would love to have the 28mm work for me, but as I've mentioned it doesn't seem to be working.  I've tried many of the suggestions you've provided - squatting down to be more aligned with the subject's waist than their eyes, various cropping techniques, and much more.  It's me.

Me to.  My preferred focal length is 50 closely followed by 90 for photography in the city.  I have several 35mm lenses and a 28mm.  The wider lenses are primarily used when in family situations and I’m taking snapshots.  When going out I almost always choose the 50.

In the past I had the idea that I must figure out the 35/28, but for my eye the longer focal lengths are far more comfortable and I create better compositions.

[Torpille]

Am 21.4.2024 um 14:36 schrieb GinaJ:

I traded in my m9 for a Q2 and had a similar experience.  It is a fun camera to shoot and very responsive and quiet, but for whatever reason I was never as happy with the images I made with the Q2 compared to the M.  A few years later I ended up going back to the M and added the 1.4x magnifier from Light Lens Lab for my 50mm lenses.  I agree with other forum members who recommended the CL, I bought a used one on a whim and absolutely love it.  It makes zero sense since on paper in every way the Q2 has better specs but I find the CL to be more enjoyable to use, and I am happier with the images I make with it.  It's an added bonus that you can use M lenses on it with an adapter.  Perhaps try renting one first to see if you like it.

I agree with you. 
An M and a CL are an excellent combination that means you're ready for any situation and it's a lot of fun to use.  

[drjonb]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:49 AM, Wellsyboy said:

Tha was a cracking tip about the "shutter pressed" review function - thank you. For anyone else reading this it only works in single shot mode (obviously!) but it is extremely useful. 

I have a Q3. Have it in single shot mode, selected option, ‘hold down shutter’ in Auto Review menu, taking shot and holding shutter release down, but no review image at all.  Any ideas please?

[drjonb]

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On 4/15/2024 at 2:22 PM, Simone_DF said:

I think you have a few options here, and you have to pick your poison, as none of them is ideal to your situation, at least at the moment.

1. Wait for a Q with a 50mm (have you sent a request to Leica? If they think enough people will buy it, they'll make it, but they also need to know how many of us are around)

2. Keep your Q3 and crop all the time, which I personally think is dumb, but to each their own. If it works for you, more power to you.

3. You say the SL + 50 APO is too big and heavy, I agree. What about the SL3 + a Sigma prime? The 50mm f2 and 90mm f2.8 are compact and light, and have a manual aperture ring, which will bring the experience closer to your M.

4. Switch to another brand. The Nikon ZFC has a great implementation for manual lenses and will work well with most of your M lenses too, especially if you don't care about corners. Plenty of options to explore with other brands too.

“2. Keep your Q3 and crop all the time, which I personally think is dumb…”. Why dumb?

[Simone_DF]

56 minutes ago, drjonb said:

“2. Keep your Q3 and crop all the time, which I personally think is dumb…”. Why dumb?

Because, in my opinion, spending 6000€ for a full frame sensor to constantly use only about half of it and throw the rest away, doesn’t sound like a wise decision to me. Of course, if for you it’s acceptable, that’s perfectly fine too!

But I believe that cropping should be a last resort, not something you do daily. I dug into Lightroom, and over 70% of my shots are taken with a 50mm and 90mm, so a camera with a fixed 28mm is not a good choice. 
The Q3 could be a nice second camera to me, but it cannot be my only camera. 

[drjonb]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Because, in my opinion, spending 6000€ for a full frame sensor to constantly use only about half of it and throw the rest away, doesn’t sound like a wise decision to me. Of course, if for you it’s acceptable, that’s perfectly fine too!

But I believe that cropping should be a last resort, not something you do daily. I dug into Lightroom, and over 70% of my shots are taken with a 50mm and 90mm, so a camera with a fixed 28mm is not a good choice. 
The Q3 could be a nice second camera to me, but it cannot be my only camera. 

Thanks for the reply. I’m an amateur (daughter is a pro) and I’ve been through the usual cycle with cameras and brands over a few decades; my Leica journey started with an M6 - I think I’ve had just about every M lens at some point. But the Leica I used most and enjoyed most was an M8, with a 28mm f2 attached. I had the Q2, swapped it for SL2-S and 24-90 (great lens, and versatile), now back to Q3….and I recently added a Nikon Z8 and tele lenses as I finally realised you can’t do it all with one type of camera! 

I get your point on cropping but ever since digital and having owned Nikons and Canons, with a digital sensor I have always cropped, sometimes you just haven’t got time to frame perfectly, especially with wildlife, street and sports. Cropping with macro (which I do a lot of) I find is inevitable. For me, having a discreet camera, with excellent optics, and, above all, af, is the essential combo, especially on the street. Aside from the silly frame lines, I think Leica got it right with the Q2 and Q3 - even though they often do not listen properly to the market.

[Le Chef]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

spending 6000€ for a full frame sensor to constantly use only about half of it and throw the rest away, doesn’t sound like a wise decision to me.

False accounting: the full frame image is still there in post: you just decided there was a better framing of the subject. Anytime you want to go back to the full frame image, you can, with no penalty.

[Simone_DF]

18 minutes ago, drjonb said:

 I get your point on cropping but ever since digital and having owned Nikons and Canons, with a digital sensor I have always cropped, sometimes you just haven’t got time to frame perfectly, especially with wildlife, street and sports.

Sure, I crop too when necessary, but I don't want to end up cropping significantly about 75% of all my photos. Perhaps getting a different camera, with my most used focal length (50mm) is the way to go. Honestly I'd pick a Panasonic S9 with one of the tiny Sigmas any day over a Q3. I already have the lens for my SL2-S and S5II, I'm waiting for the prices of the S9 to drop.

[David Wien]

I crop nearly every image that I use. I figure that the sensor of my other camera (Canon R6) has only 20MP and produces excellent pictures, while needing to have the right lens attached, whereas the Q3 is 60MP, and I am still winning if I throw away half of them — with the added bonus that I dont have to carry additional lenses with me.

David

[Trankster]

I have become very comfortable with 28mm on my Q3.  I do try to get closer to subjects while also trying to avoid the wide angle distortion when photographing people.  I crop as needed usually in PP rather than using the camera's frame lines.  I also have second camera, a Ricoh GR IIIx which I bring as back up and discrete camera when traveling.  I had a Q2 previously and spent a month touring Italy with it as my only camera.  I was quite happy with the results @ 28mm.  It may be my imagination or just more experience with the Q system, but I find less wide angle distortion since switching to the Q3.

[Luke_Miller]

43 minutes ago, David Wien said:

I crop nearly every image that I use. I figure that the sensor of my other camera (Canon R6) has only 20MP and produces excellent pictures, while needing to have the right lens attached, whereas the Q3 is 60MP, and I am still winning if I throw away half of them — with the added bonus that I dont have to carry additional lenses with me.

David

I agree completely.  I no longer print big and almost everything I shoot now goes in web galleries.  Probably every digital camera I've shot with since my D1 has sufficient resolution for my current use.  The value of my 47-megapixel bodies is in allowing me to use my lighter shorter focal length lenses and crop to get the composition I would get with my large and heavy zoom lenses. Back when I got my first digital body cropping was not really an option due to low resolution, much like 35mm film.  One had to compose in camera.  I suspect that some of the antipathy towards cropping comes from those times.  Now the M 11, SL3, and Q3 have 60-megapixel sensors.  Unless you print very large or crop, what benefit does one receive from all that resolution?

[bobtodrick]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Sure, I crop too when necessary, but I don't want to end up cropping significantly about 75% of all my photos. Perhaps getting a different camera, with my most used focal length (50mm) is the way to go. Honestly I'd pick a Panasonic S9 with one of the tiny Sigmas any day over a Q3. I already have the lens for my SL2-S and S5II, I'm waiting for the prices of the S9 to drop.

I've cropped for 50 years...in camera, in a wet darkroom and now in Photoshop.  If the image is good (what photography is all about) I don't care how one gets there.

It's kind of a well know fact that you don't like the Q series of cameras...so why keep posting?

[PluckinTones]

A year ago, I would have said that a fixed 28mm lens as a daily camera was probably too wide. The Q2 challenged me initially, but after using it exclusively on holidays and family outings, I've found the 28mm f/1.7 to be an excellent choice, especially with the higher resolution of the Q2 and Q3. I use the uncropped 28mm more than I expected, and thanks to the lens and sensor's resolution, I can comfortably crop as needed without significant quality loss.

I think there are a few key ways to get the most out of the Q series: 1) Use the Q2 exclusively for an extended period, 2) Get close to your subjects, especially kids and smaller objects, and 3) Expect to crop if you can't get closer or are shooting portraits of adults.

No, I don't see it as a waste of a full-frame sensor, even if most pictures end up cropped in some way. It's a feature that complements the sensor and lens resolution, making the camera far more versatile than insisting every shot be at 28mm or sticking to a one-lens, one-camera setup with a 50mm. With only a 50mm or even a 35mm, you can't get wider when needed, and a two-camera setup or lens changes are more trouble than necessary when photography isn't the main event.

[Simone_DF]

13 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

I've cropped for 50 years...in camera, in a wet darkroom and now in Photoshop.  If the image is good (what photography is all about) I don't care how one gets there.

Yes, and as said above, I also crop, but I don’t want to do it all the time. Getting a 28mm to shot it at 50 and 90mm 70/80% of the time is dumb.

 

13 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

It's kind of a well know fact that you don't like the Q series of cameras...so why keep posting?

Because another user quoted me asking a question. You also have the option to ignore me, if you don’t want to read my posts.
And anyway I don’t hate the Q, reread post #48 above: nice second camera, but not my main camera. 
 

[drjonb]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Yes, and as said above, I also crop, but I don’t want to do it all the time. Getting a 28mm to shot it at 50 and 90mm 70/80% of the time is dumb.

 

Because another user quoted me asking a question. You also have the option to ignore me, if you don’t want to read my posts.
And anyway I don’t hate the Q, reread post #48 above: nice second camera, but not my main camera. 
 

You might get a more constructive debate if you stopped asserting that methods contrary to your preferences are “dumb”. This is a discussion about opinions, not facts, and labelling other opinions as “dumb” might be termed dumb, rather than conducive to debate.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, drjonb said:

You might get a more constructive debate if you stopped asserting that methods contrary to your preferences are “dumb”. This is a discussion about opinions, not facts, and labelling other opinions as “dumb” might be termed dumb, rather than conducive to debate.

Reread post #48. I said multiple times that it is only my opinion, it’s even in your own quote

Edited August 16, 2024 by Simone_DF

[drjonb]

22 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Reread post #48. I said multiple times that it is only my opinion, it’s even in your own quote

Saying something is “dumb” maybe your opinion, but labelling something, ”dumb”, something which someone else is advocating, might be regarded as somewhat impolite.