M12 wishlist

[JNK100]

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24 minutes ago, pgk said:

I was simply showing that others can make Mrf cameras and cheaper .....not

Not particularly cheap and it doesn't have a screen nor accept memory cards. It is also 24mp and judged to be inferior to the M10.

Build quality not there either I understand.

[archive_all]

I'll add another vote for at least an optional simplified M12.

• OVF
• Shutter with fewer movements, maybe add first curtain electric if metering continues off the sensor
• D pad deleted
• Flush screen with simple touch navigation like the T series (I barely use the menu anyway which is the way an M should be, easy to shoot like a film M)
• Stable no freeze ups
• 24-40 mp is fine
• USB charging
• Keep the current battery
• IBIS not a must, don't care either way as long as the size doesn't increase.

[algrove]

Still curious to see if DJI offers a Leica-like smallish camera since they have now joined the L mount alliance.

[Gianfranco Piovano]

I would appreciate a lot:

1st: the chance to combine Perpective Control and Digital Zoom, as already available inside Q3.

2nd: vibration compensation on the sensor

3rd: Costs of accessories, more related to market levels.  even if are marked Leica, some accessories (Filters, EVF, ..) have actually absurd costs with features comparable to less expensive  but not "cheep" competitor parts.

what about to create inside this community, a common list of prioritized requests to Leica?

 

[JNK100]

26 minutes ago, Gianfranco Piovano said:

I would appreciate a lot:

1st: the chance to combine Perpective Control and Digital Zoom, as already available inside Q3.

2nd: vibration compensation on the sensor

3rd: Costs of accessories, more related to market levels.  even if are marked Leica, some accessories (Filters, EVF, ..) have actually absurd costs with features comparable to less expensive  but not "cheep" competitor parts.

what about to create inside this community, a common list of prioritized requests to Leica?

 

No thanks for points one and two.

Why would Leica reduce e the price of their accessories?

[Gianfranco Piovano]

I do not chose Leica M11 as a status symbol, but just as a agood tool.

why are you against req.ts 1 & 2?  You do not like/use them, but someone else might do.

Combine PC & digital Zoom (1,3 & 1,8) would not jeopardize the Leica M philosophy: it would just combine 2 existing functionality improving tool effectiveness.

Vibration compensation is not different to the focus helps introduced in LV. RF focusing remains unchanged, but the why not approach on LV has helped a lot Leica Users with some visual deficit or with RF focus limited capacity. It doe not change the Leica M philofical approach to Photografy. 

Why not have accessories with lower price?

you looks intersted to maintain a limit access to Leica tools to few wealthy.

[phojomatic]

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I think Leica painted themselves into a corner with the 18/36/60 sensor for future cameras…where do they go from here, especially when a version of that sensor is in the M/Q/SL product lines? A single higher mp chip excludes older glass (a reason why 18mp was chosen) and necessitates IBIS. A lower 24mp chip angers the high mp enthusiasts. A stacked sensor, shutter less M would be too radical and also, from A93/Z9 use, the lack of audible and tactical feedback from shutter mechanism is strange. 
 

Personally, I’d be perfectly happy with a second go of the triple resolution chip in an M12. 
 

But what I’d like to see in an M12, fwiw:

IBIS to eliminate the f/4…I’d like to shoot at 1/30 again. 
 

A new shutter dial, please!! Why markings for tripod only speeds? The Q3 style is an elegant solution, 1 to 1/400 and use a +\- At each end. Maybe we could get 1/8000 on the dial too since there’s now extra space. 
 

My #1 would be a better meter in viewfinder vs 3 dots, but don’t see that ever happening. Cough, M5. 
 

Assuming a bar style overlay, I wonder if the RF patch could have a green (or red) focus confirmation light? Maybe useful? 
 

Please: NO flip screen.  No EVF. Also please don’t move the three buttons to the right to “match” the other cameras. They work well with left thumb on a rangefinder. Possibly lose the directional button and incorporate into the three buttons like the Q3. We still need a tactile button for menus bc cold/wets hands don’t work well with touch lcd. 
 

If possible, a rangefinder to .4m to make use of the close focus lenses. Low priority though. 
 

SD card ok/ 256 internal storage plenty. 
 

So basically, I can’t think of much the M11-P doesn’t have other than no freezing (I’ve had this even with newest firmware, but now it’s thankfully just pull battery). The cause is always shoot, then review where lcd doesn’t turn on and it just locks up, fyi. 
 

It’s such a shame the freezing since day one tarnished such a great camera. 

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, phojomatic said:

A single higher mp chip excludes older glass (a reason why 18mp was chosen)

Interesting comment. What is your source?

Have you seen anything issued by Leica to advise use of 18mp option with 'older' lenses?

 

[phojomatic]

1 hour ago, pedaes said:

Interesting comment. What is your source?

Have you seen anything issued by Leica to advise use of 18mp option with 'older' lenses?

 

When M11 came out, I had a discussion with a technical product manager and I asked why the three resolutions and he said “bc people like to use old glass.”

I know my 50mm cron M does look better on an SL2-S than SL2. It’s not bad on the higher resolution, it just doesn’t hold detail as well. Now this is a newer lens but Mandler design for film. Yet, IMHO, that lens is at least equal or better to the SL 50mm ASPH SL on same cameras. 

Just shows how good M glass holds up. I’ve been told by same Leica employee the new M glass was good for 100mp while the SL APOs 200mp. 
 

I really wish I could find the video (I think it was taken down after M11 launch), but I distinctly remember Stephan Daniel saying during the M10 launch to Dr. K that 24mp was determined to be the optimum resolution for the lenses. 
 

And then came the M10-R lol. 

[pedaes]

29 minutes ago, phojomatic said:

24mp was determined to be the optimum resolution

24mp is 'sweet spot' for prints up to A3+

The 50APO M was launched to compliment the higher resolution of the original Monochrom, and as future proof for what was to come.

[Jamie Roberts]

All I want is...in order of priority...

• a diopter built-in, for heaven's sake, like every other camera in the modern world!
• better battery life (not that it's terrible now, especially compared with EVF cams)
• a dual battery charger included, please
• a better / simpler / verifiable way to keep the RF in tune in case of accidental bumps. I actually don't care if this is built-into the camera or sold as an external kit. I just think it's crazy to force your users to 1) send in the camera for adjustments that could be made directly or 2) go outside to find an infinity target when it's -20c and snowing  
  
  I also understand there are lens adjustment details (like shimming) that need an expert touch. However, basic camera RF tuning should be an easy-to-maintain and replicable part of the system. 

I don't care about the app, connectivity, or even the built-in profiles much (though I'm not against them for other folks). Same goes for IBIS (don't seem to need it (yet)--but I'm not against it either).  

[Le Chef]

On 1/23/2025 at 5:25 PM, algrove said:

Still curious to see if DJI offers a Leica-like smallish camera since they have now joined the L mount alliance.

Offering a smaller camera with an L-mount is a suicide mission. You would undermine both the SL and the S5. Not going to happen.

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Offering a smaller camera with an L-mount is a suicide mission. You would undermine both the SL and the S5. Not going to happen.

Don't tell anyone about the S9 then.

[Derbyshire Man]

On 1/23/2025 at 4:52 PM, charlesphoto99 said:

I do think there are innovations around the traditional M finder that possibly could be made/explored. Thing is, it would most likely add bulk or complexity to the camera that Leica has tried to avoid as most would complain about that (they really can't win). I've always wanted to see a revamp of the LCD arrows/info, so that one could at least get full time readout of shutter speeds when in manual metering mode (esp handy in dark places where one can't see the top dial). A swing out type of add on magnifier/reducer might be nice (though anyone who's bought - and then sold - the swing out polarizer can attest to these type of things being nothing but awkward).

At the end of the day, it would be nice for Leica to address some of the underlying basics that have been ignored - such as the increasingly long start up/standby times. It's a bit like an audio server program I use called Roon. They have added a lot of bells and whistles over the last few years, almost none of which I and many original users use, but are constantly flubbing the library basics and underlying stability (which then renders the bells and whistles moot if you do use them). 

These are the keys for me, both of them. Not being able to see both exposure and shutter speed is a PITA. I really think it could be fixed now via firmware; while moving shutter dial arrows and dot are displayed, after no change of shutter speed for 0.5 seconds the shutter speed is displayed for 1s (or some settable amount of time). I can't imagine how it's never been sorted when it's such a glaring issue for 'eye on the subject' photography.

Agree on turn on times too but the energy use in standby is so low that's a second priority for me, albeit it close behind!

[phojomatic]

5 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

These are the keys for me, both of them. Not being able to see both exposure and shutter speed is a PITA. I really think it could be fixed now via firmware; while moving shutter dial arrows and dot are displayed, after no change of shutter speed for 0.5 seconds the shutter speed is displayed for 1s (or some settable amount of time). I can't imagine how it's never been sorted when it's such a glaring issue for 'eye on the subject' photography.

Agree on turn on times too but the energy use in standby is so low that's a second priority for me, albeit it close behind!

Totally agree and second (or third) call to show shutter speeds and I think you have a good solution that doesn’t add a +\~ meter which still would be useful…adding via firmware, while risky, would be a bonus!

I find it’s easier to count the clicks with my M6 (little dial) than M11-P. Also way less clicks. I love seeing shutter speed but don’t always want to shoot in A or use a visioflex. 
 

 

[phojomatic]

9 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Offering a smaller camera with an L-mount is a suicide mission. You would undermine both the SL and the S5. Not going to happen.

I agree and can’t imagine a smaller Q size camera with L mount as the lenses are arguably already too big for the SL. 
 

I think if Leica had another go and made a Q styled APSC sensor to use the TL size lenses, that would be a hit and protect their market. But it would also spread limited production resources and impact existing product lines, so not sure it’s financially worth it. 
 

File under: Nice, but never going to happen. 

[Le Chef]

9 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Don't tell anyone about the S9 then.

That’s a vlogger piece of kit, not a camera. No EVF, wobbly shutter. Pass!

[JNK100]

On 1/30/2025 at 10:43 AM, Gianfranco Piovano said:

I do not chose Leica M11 as a status symbol, but just as a agood tool.

why are you against req.ts 1 & 2?  You do not like/use them, but someone else might do.

Combine PC & digital Zoom (1,3 & 1,8) would not jeopardize the Leica M philosophy: it would just combine 2 existing functionality improving tool effectiveness.

Vibration compensation is not different to the focus helps introduced in LV. RF focusing remains unchanged, but the why not approach on LV has helped a lot Leica Users with some visual deficit or with RF focus limited capacity. It doe not change the Leica M philofical approach to Photografy. 

Why not have accessories with lower price?

you looks intersted to maintain a limit access to Leica tools to few wealthy.

I do not know how you could infer what you did from what I said.

Yes, of course it would be great if Leica accessories were cheaper. My point was purely a commercial one. Why would Leica reduce prices unless they couldn't sell at the current price level ( which it seems able to do)?.

I am against points one and two as I like simplicity in an M camera. If IBIS was added it would make the camera thicker I think in addition and would add cost.

I have no interest in limiting Leica to the wealthy at all. I just hold a different opinion to you.

 

 

[MeleeGhillie]

my wishlist: 
1. Option to use the secondary meter for metering, so that the shutter curtains doesn’t have to close and be opened again

2. electronic front curtain option
3. add an option for digital zoom frame lines on screen? (like in the Q series cameras)

4. Change the scratch resistant black finish to the Q3/SL3 black finish

5. a non-protruding screen (like in the Q2)

more creative ideas:
6. Remove the iso dial from the left side of the deck and add an iso dial like the M2 film counter

7. The next M12-D, M12M available in silver instead of black

8. An EVF version called the M11-E sold at the price of a Q3

ABSOLUTELY NOT:

ibis, it makes the camera less durable and thicker

global shutter, that would mean no more mechanical shutter, and worse DR

Hybrid viewfinder with no rangefinder coupling. 

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[evikne]

6 minutes ago, MeleeGhillie said:

7. The next M12-D, M12M available in silver instead of black

I would love this, even though it's unlikely.