SL3 - A case of what could have been(s)

[Dipal]

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25 minutes ago, chicagophoto said:

If your just shooting in JPG, it's recording in the SRGB color space and that's why the reds are crushed or look pink. For whatever reason they didn't give Abode RGB as an option, which means to get the full color gamut you have to shoot raw. 

I was shooting DNG+JPEG and editing the DNG on LR. 

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[Dipal]

11 hours ago, SrMi said:

Why don't you shoot 5fps?

When I was shooting wildlife with my Nikon D3-s, I was rarely using more than 5fps.

Yes, I am ok to do that. The big files however are difficult to handle for the camera. I find that even with 5 fps and reduced IBIS effectiveness (perceived), I can't get a sharp shot of my moving kids. I know shooting kids is notoriously iffy but in my mind that is a limitation.

5fps is also 12 bit. The high ISO of this camera is not that great because of the sheer size of the image being output. Ultimately, if you add everything up, the image quality suffers. 

[JohnSantaF4]

On 3/10/2024 at 8:18 AM, Dipal said:

Hey folks, I've been fortunate enough to receive the SL3 and fortunate enough to test it for a couple of days.

Here are a few observations:

1. The body feels extremely solid. It is a welcome change from using an SL2-S or a SL2 in terms of ergonomics. However when used with the Leica SL glass the weight differential is probably not going to be THAT apparent.  But if you, like me are using Sigma/Lumix glass then you can expect it to behave like any other mirrorless - only be extremely well balanced. 
2. AF - It is very iffy. It misses sometimes when it shouldn't and surprises you a few times too. Overall, quite unpredictable but if you're planning to use AF-S only, I think you don't need to think much as you can expect it to hit the target 99.5% of the time. Problem arises when you 'expect' this thing to be a A9 or Z9 or even a R3. The SL3 isn't going to beat those but I do understand people's expectation for it to at least come close given the price Leica is charging. Yes, 7000 USD isn't much of a change from SL2 price but it is A LOT. When you add SL lenses you are spending a fortune. 
3. Continous shooting - I need to try this but the c AF isn't sticky and I am not confident on this camera to be able to handle a burst mode shooting
4. White Balance - Still hit and miss. Most of the shots I took are quite blue and I do need to adjust the sliders in LR. I don't know what 
5. I don't know but the REDs aren't properly captured when I clicked few of my test shots. It was more like I was shooting pink. I've never seen this issue before with any Leicas. 
6. Power Button - It is what it is. You can't change it now that they've put the camera out so you either live with it or you don't. No point discussing this more. 
7. Video - I don't use video as much so can't comment on the video
8. Using M glass is as fantastic as ever. Although it cannot match the Nikon ZF for ease of focussing with manual focus lenses, I have always loved focusing M glass with the SLs. It is wonderful and the output is nice
9. The flippy screen is SOLID. The screen brightness is not that high though and it is quite a disappointment. The resolution also should be better. For all the UI advancements the camera offers and as fantastic as it is, the screen brightness feels REALLY LOW at max brightness. I don't know if I am the only one facing this issue. 
10. Internal storage would have been nice but alas, CFexpress will do
11. Yes, the shutter sound is loud
12. Battery life is terrible. Also the body heats up a lot - I am on firmware 1.1.0 so not sure what's going on but this needs to be looked into. 
13. Overall, the images do need some tweaking in Lightroom. The image quality and IQ is fantastic. The Dynamic range is MUCH improved from the SL2. 

These are the things at top of my mind when it comes to the SL3. I do intend to continue testing further and am happy to report back to you if any of you have any questions. 

I think Leica should be giving the consumers more than what they have with the SL3, with the time they've had to iterate on the SL system and with the price they are charging. It does show a serious concern when the best camera that you can put out can only do 4 FPS at 14 bit uncompressed RAW.

I also feel that the L-mount alliance is super capable with the kind of glass they are putting out. However, focus on L-mount bodies and development needs to speed up to give us consumers the confidence to invest in the system.

The Nikon ZF is less than 1/3 the price of this and arguably does many a things better than the SL3. It shouldn't be that consumers feel shortchanged. With the competition providing a LOT more than this, Leica needs to up their game in rolling out those firmware updates soon - or the bus might leave and there might be no catching up to do. 

I am sharing some pictures that I have taken in the last two days with this camera and will submit more as we go on. You can view more at the Flickr album (follow the image link). Happy shooting guys!

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Thank you, Dipal, for taking the time to share your insights and experiences. Looks like the cake wasn’t completely baked before the SL3 release. I’m surprised by how many small disappointments begin to add up on a camera at this price point, despite the beautifully crafted and ergonomically sound body. Your boys make great models! 

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, Dipal said:

Yes, I am ok to do that. The big files however are difficult to handle for the camera. I find that even with 5 fps and reduced IBIS effectiveness (perceived), I can't get a sharp shot of my moving kids. I know shooting kids is notoriously iffy but in my mind that is a limitation.

5fps is also 12 bit. The high ISO of this camera is not that great because of the sheer size of the image being output. Ultimately, if you add everything up, the image quality suffers. 

12 bits at a higher ISO does not suffer IQ when compared to 14 bits. You can check it out.

I do not understand how high ISO is related to the output size.

[Dipal]

10 hours ago, Smogg said:

Actually 4fps with AF between frames, Sony A7RV - 7fps. We can conclude that Sony's hardware and software is approximately 2 times more powerful

Precisely! 
I wonder how, for a new camera/product which is storyboarded for at least a 4 years of a product cycle can there be such a hard hitting limitation in processing power? 

[Dipal]

5 minutes ago, SrMi said:

12 bits at a higher ISO does not suffer IQ when compared to 14 bits. You can check it out.

I do not understand how high ISO is related to the output size.

ISO sensitivity for a large sensor won't be the same with that of a smaller sensor (SL3 vs SL2-S for example). It's a physical limitation. 

[PeterBoyadjian]

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I think Sony does 7fps with electronic shutter. 

You might want to return the SL3 and buy a S5II til the SL3-S is released. S5II with APO lenses is a nice combo. 

 

[Dipal]

3 minutes ago, PeterBoyadjian said:

I think Sony does 7fps with electronic shutter. 

You might want to return the SL3 and buy a S5II til the SL3-S is released. S5II with APO lenses is a nice combo. 

 

Problem in Asia is there's no return system
We have to bear losses and sell in the second hand market  

[PeterBoyadjian]

3 minutes ago, Dipal said:

Problem in Asia is there's no return system
We have to bear losses and sell in the second hand market  

What lens are you using with the SL3? 

Have you adjusted the AF profile at all? 

Adjusting the sensitivity, movement and direction might help capturing your kids then their running around. 

[Dipal]

4 minutes ago, PeterBoyadjian said:

What lens are you using with the SL3? 

Have you adjusted the AF profile at all? 

Adjusting the sensitivity, movement and direction might help capturing your kids then their running around. 

I was using the Lumix 85mm 1.8s. Yes, I adjusted the sensitivity. I'm not giving up on the camera just yet  I do love the output from the camera. 

[SrMi]

15 minutes ago, Dipal said:

ISO sensitivity for a large sensor won't be the same with that of a smaller sensor (SL3 vs SL2-S for example). It's a physical limitation. 

I do not follow.

Both cameras have sensors of the same size.

What is ISO sensitivity that you are referring to? ISO does not set sensor sensitivity except for the dual gain.

Sensors with larger resolutions have similar DR/noise as sensors with smaller resolutions (same output size).

 

 

 

[PeterBoyadjian]

What shutter speed are you using? and you're using eye af? 

[frame-it]

31 minutes ago, Dipal said:

ISO sensitivity for a large sensor won't be the same with that of a smaller sensor (SL3 vs SL2-S for example). It's a physical limitation. 

by "larger" you mean more Megapixels crammed into the same physical dimensions of the sensor?

 

[Smogg]

3 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Are you talking about my picture that I raised 6.5 stops?  well I have started at 200ISO. But anyone that wasn't a usable photo from 6.5 Stop Under or over is crazy!
In my case, the flash didn't fire. I was curious if I could get anything out of it, but I would never deliver that.

The main conclusion from the images presented in the article is that bit depth matters even for high ISOs. This is clearly seen from the example

[fotonutzz]

Hi Dipal

I agree with your point on the SL3 being hot after shooting.  It gets warm after 50 shots or more.  
However, my battery life seems good.  I shot about 420 frames and still have 2 bars left on my battery.  And I was using my old Q3 battery which I bought in May 23.  Dunno why CIPA rated it at 260 shots only. 
As for the colour accuracy, my set seems OK.  The colour of the model’s dress was rendered correctly. 

[Chaemono]

The only time Leica reds turn into pink is with the stock profiles of the cameras is my experience, not with the Adobe profiles.

[Chaemono]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb fotonutzz:

[…]
As for the colour accuracy, my set seems OK.  The colour of the model’s dress was rendered correctly. 

There is a DNG of a vase of roses in DPR SL3 sample gallery https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/4112142540/leica-sl3-preview-sample-gallery/2961797473 If the stock profile is used, they turn pink.

If the OP’s reds are rendered pink in LR, assuming he is using the Adobe profiles, then there is clearly something wrong with his camera. 

[Dipal]

38 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

There is a DNG of a vase of roses in DPR SL3 sample gallery https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/4112142540/leica-sl3-preview-sample-gallery/2961797473 If the stock profile is used, they turn pink.

If the OP’s reds are rendered pink in LR, assuming he is using the Adobe profiles, then there is clearly something wrong with his camera. 

You're right, I am using the stock profile.  I always thought stock profile was better but I should have known better  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Dipal]

1 hour ago, fotonutzz said:

Hi Dipal

I agree with your point on the SL3 being hot after shooting.  It gets warm after 50 shots or more.  
However, my battery life seems good.  I shot about 420 frames and still have 2 bars left on my battery.  And I was using my old Q3 battery which I bought in May 23.  Dunno why CIPA rated it at 260 shots only. 
As for the colour accuracy, my set seems OK.  The colour of the model’s dress was rendered correctly. 

Here in Singapore, it gets very hot and humid, and I had the camera outdoors on a not so sunny day with average temperature of 28-30 degrees Celsius.

[hansvons]

On 3/10/2024 at 3:18 PM, Dipal said:

With the competition providing a LOT more than this, Leica needs to up their game in rolling out those firmware updates soon - or the bus might leave and there might be no catching up to do. 

That's not how Leica works. It's never been. They have their own bus, which is slow but exclusive. This might be a very boring statement for specs nerds, but Leica has never been about electronic advancements or the cutting edge. Leica is about the experience, the lenses and the results that can arise from that singular combination. For some, it's the name.

Comparing Leica products with the competition is a moot exercise because the competition is not a competition. No one in their right mind would buy a Leica for the specs. Sorry to hear you are underwhelmed.