New m8.2 owner with IR filter problem. My pics look too blue - overcast in blue

[taketwo]

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Recently got the IR filter (changes from blue to red) for my m8.2; I was told to get one if I was to shoot color. Well I did but pretty unhappy with how the blue overcast kicks in. I tried editing in Lightroom but its not working. Can you take a look at the pics and maybe help me out on what the problem is.

 

Thanks

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[jaapv]

Those filters are clearly useless and produce cyan all over the place. With a strong Cyan vignette. I’ve never heard of this brand. Get B&W or Heliopan or Marumi filters. Make sure that your camera recognizes the lens 

[taketwo]

17 hours ago, jaapv said:

Those filters are clearly useless and produce cyan all over the place. With a strong Cyan vignette. I’ve never heard of this brand. Get B&W or Heliopan or Marumi filters. Make sure that your camera recognizes the lens 

Thank you - I'm using the voigtlander 15mm III - it's rangefinder coupled and m-mount but not sure how to tell if it's recognizing it

[jdlaing]

59 minutes ago, taketwo said:

Thank you - I'm using the voigtlander 15mm III - it's rangefinder coupled and m-mount but not sure how to tell if it's recognizing it

It won’t recognize a Voigtlander lens. 

[jaapv]

A Voigtländer 15 is just about the worst lens you can use on an M8 for Cyan vignetting.  You need coded lenses especially for wider than 35 mm  to activate the in-camera corrections. The widest that the camera accepts is a coded Super Elmar 18 mm. You can correct the vignette in postprocessing by Flat Field Correction. Embedded in C1 and a plugin for Lightroom and Photoshop. It might be that you can handle these filters as  well. 

[adan]

Quick fixes (possibly):

1) get the "Flat-field plugin" for Lightroom https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/flat-field-correction.html

2) get the Corner-Fix software by a (former?) forum member, specifically created at the time of the M8, for digital M cameras: https://sourceforge.net/projects/cornerfix/

Another simple fix: Simple do not use UV/IR filters - correcting the occasional overall unfiltered magenta-grays/blacks is often easier than trying to correct the constant variable green/cyan/blue tint from the filters - especially with lenses wider than 50mm.

This picture was made the first week I owned the M8 (Dec. 2006) - unfiltered, because the filters were not even available yet - AND the original tiny Voigtlander 15mm f/4.5 SWH screw-mount lens, adapted to M mount.

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........................

Otherwise: the IR-cut filters must be used with 6-bit-coded lenses (or manually selected in the lens menu - but I cannot even remember if that was an option in the M8 series.)

Especially with focal lengths shorter than 50mm.

Only LEICA lenses are officially supported by that system - because Leica only tests its own lenses to find out each lens's specific "cyan-vignetting" pattern, and write correction algorithms for each specific lens model.

Although one can sometimes select a Leica lens in the menu that is "close enough" to a C/V M-mounts or Zeiss ZM lens's optical formula to improve things.

I eventually used that same Voigtlander screw-mount 15mm f/4.5 SWH lens on the M8, with an IR filter very successfully. But only by:

(1) getting a special screw-to-M adapter made by a former forum member who had access to a machine shop, that had the indentations to paint black or white to create protected "permanent" 6-bit coding.

(2) coding it as a 21mm Elmarit pre-ASPH. Which produces the strongest color-vignetting correction of all Leicas codes.

(3) wrapping the rim of an E39 Heliopan UV/IR filter, and "jamming" that into the lens's built-in "lens-shade" tabs. 

...............

Technical background: with wide-angle lenses, the lens looks through the IR filter slantwise at the edges of the photo: the filter is effectively "thicker and denser" from that point of view. Thus the edges are made blue-greener by the filter than the center is. Leica determines the specific pattern for each of its own lenses, and reduces the cyan digitally in-camera before writing the file - IF the lens is identified to the camera by 6-bit coding or from the menu list of lenses.

Note that this effect is not identical to the "Italian Flag"multi-color pattern produced on FF sensors. That is a pixel-architecture problem, this is specifically an IR-filter problem.

 

Edited March 10, 2024 by adan

[adan]

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31 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The widest that the camera accepts is a coded Super Elmar 18 mm

I must have been imagining things - I was certain Leica sold (and sells) a 16-18-21 lens. 😃

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, adan said:

Simple do not use UV/IR filters - correcting the occasional overall unfiltered magenta-grays/blacks is often easier than trying to correct the constant variable green/cyan/blue tint from the filters - especially with lenses wider than 50mm.

Except, IR contamination does not stop there - it creates olive-coloured greens and magenta and yellow blotches on Caucasian skin - both are present in your example, and if you are in extremely high-IR conditions it will produce an incorrigible yellow cast on the image (and overly yellow open flames in for instance a camp fire)

 

2 hours ago, adan said:

I must have been imagining things - I was certain Leica sold (and sells) a 16-18-21 lens. 😃

Yes. That lens was developed with this problem in mind and uses the same correction for each of the three focal lengths.

[taketwo]

Newb to coding lenses as well; and my Voigt 15mm III is an m mount but not coded....would manually coding it (i'll have to look that up if possible) provide an improvement over the current non-filter setting in camera? Because if I code it I could choose the IR setting...if that would help? Thanks

Edited March 12, 2024 by taketwo

[farnz]

On 3/9/2024 at 11:46 PM, taketwo said:

Recently got the IR filter (changes from blue to red) for my m8.2; I was told to get one if I was to shoot color. Well I did but pretty unhappy with how the blue overcast kicks in. I tried editing in Lightroom but its not working. Can you take a look at the pics and maybe help me out on what the problem is.

 

Thanks

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Something is way off with this filter. 🤔  If, as described, it's a "UV-IR Cut Filter Infrared Pass Lens Filter" then the UV-IR Cut 'part' will stop any UV and IR wavelengths passing through it and the Infrared Pass 'part' will only allow infrared wavelengths to pass through (but they've already been stopped by the UV-IR Cut).  In theory the result: no wavelengths will pass through and all pictures would be black.

The advertisement goes on to say "Instead of eliminating infrared rays, infrared filters block visible light, allowing only infrared rays to pass through, creating images that look like black and white but have unique colors."  This is the opposite of what you want - you want visible light to pass through but infrared and ultraviolet wavelengths to be blocked.

I would avoid this ebay seller because they have had 54 negative feedbacks in the past 12 months, which is very high.

Pete.

[taketwo]

10 minutes ago, farnz said:

Something is way off with this filter. 🤔  If, as described, it's a "UV-IR Cut Filter Infrared Pass Lens Filter" then the UV-IR Cut 'part' will stop any UV and IR wavelengths passing through it and the Infrared Pass 'part' will only allow infrared wavelengths to pass through (but they've already been stopped by the UV-IR Cut).  In theory the result: no wavelengths will pass through and all pictures would be black.

The advertisement goes on to say "Instead of eliminating infrared rays, infrared filters block visible light, allowing only infrared rays to pass through, creating images that look like black and white but have unique colors."  This is the opposite of what you want - you want visible light to pass through but infrared and ultraviolet wavelengths to be blocked.

I would avoid this ebay seller because they have had 54 negative feedbacks in the past 12 months, which is very high.

Pete.

Thank you Pete; any particular brand/model of IR filter you enjoy? 

[farnz]

9 hours ago, taketwo said:

Thank you Pete; any particular brand/model of IR filter you enjoy? 

Yes, as mentioned earlier by Jaapv, Marumi for UV-IR for my M8, Singh-Ray for 850 nm infra-red pass on my M8 when I'm shooting infra-red handheld, and Heliopan for ND Grad and most other things.  For a rectangular filter system (mostly for landscape work) I use the Lee Filters system.  I've also occasionally used B+W, Urth (previously called Gobe), Cokin, and Hoya for various needs over the years; none of those I wouldn't use again.  I hope this helps.

Pete.

[taketwo]

1 hour ago, farnz said:

Yes, as mentioned earlier by Jaapv, Marumi for UV-IR for my M8, Singh-Ray for 850 nm infra-red pass on my M8 when I'm shooting infra-red handheld, and Heliopan for ND Grad and most other things.  For a rectangular filter system (mostly for landscape work) I use the Lee Filters system.  I've also occasionally used B+W, Urth (previously called Gobe), Cokin, and Hoya for various needs over the years; none of those I wouldn't use again.  I hope this helps.

Pete.

Thanks, but I'm not shooting infra red. I just want to shoot color on occasion...so just the marumi then?

[farnz]

4 hours ago, taketwo said:

Thanks, but I'm not shooting infra red. I just want to shoot color on occasion...so just the marumi then?

That's what I use.

Pete.

[jdlaing]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:30 AM, taketwo said:

Thanks, but I'm not shooting infra red. I just want to shoot color on occasion...so just the marumi then?

Where are you located and what size filter do you need? If you want, send me a private message.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I had a similar problem with a 18mm Zeiss and an M8 on overcast days. Now I run the DNG photos from the Zeiss through an Zeiss 18mm f4 ZM profile in ACR and the problem was greatly dimminished. I was using a B+W 486 IR/UV cut filter. There is an ACR profile for the Voigtlander 15mm.

Edited March 16, 2024 by tommonego@gmail.com

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I was out with the 18mm Zeiss the other day, when I came home I put the ACR ZM Zeiss 18mm profile on the images and it seemed to over correct. The images just were lighted too much in the corners. I am wondering if this is because I was using f8 mostly I have 1 or 2 at f4 so maybe I'll check those out. This image I corrected from the over correction.

M8 Zeiss 18mm f4 Distagon

 

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