Leica SL3: 60 MP & Phase Detection AF

[Markey]

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" I have no idea why people think think need the fastest Af and burst possible, what is it that they are photographing? Honing your skills as a photographer, ie anticipating a moment and creating an image is a lot more important than spray and pray…."

Both techniques can be applicable .

That`s the skills bit providing the camera tech is up to it too.

I do a fair bit of equestrian photography.

Jump shots are a good example of what you suggest.

You know where the jump is and if you know both the rider and especially the horse you can focus on the jump and press the shutter at the correct time.

Sometimes you can see on the approach that they just aren`t going to make the jump so you lower the camera .

I took that shot for 25 years with an M3 double  stroke.

However if you need to take a shot of a galloping horse its important that you capture it when its legs are in the most  attractive position.

Without a good AF and burst its pot luck.

I would go further and say virtually impossible.

You `d be catching it on the forehand nine times out of ten.

 

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[Photoworks]

Now that I had a few shoots trying the SL3 with AFc  I can talk about the experience 

does it works? In photo mode yes, using it with 24-90 and apo summicron's

Is it accurate? Yes most of the time. Shooting moving people in fashion shoots, walking, mostly wide open it worked with face body AF. I think this is the most develop profile on the SL and S5II. Some time it looses the face and it is totally blurry, and won't catch up for 4-5 frames..

The experience if not enjoyable. When sooting continues frames and AFc you look a blurry screen most of the time. I had stop a few times and review the images and make sure something was in focus. I could not tell while shooting. 
 

at 2fps with af-c I got a hit rate of 80% on the swing

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

16 hours ago, Jim B said:

Hi Flash, 

 All I can say is …wow, lol. You must have gotten a good X2D because I returned mine asap. That left to right rocking lens mount made it a no go for me, and their customer service telling people the low tolerance manufacturing issue was actually designed that way was just insulting.  After the X1D release with all the bugs, over heating, click wheel issues…. I still can’t even sell that camera. Dealers, won’t even take it in a trade! 

I think you really nailed it on the head about knowing what camera you prefer to use. I can’t really complain about Leica, I love using it. The images make me happy. I have no idea why people think think need the fastest Af and burst possible, what is it that they are photographing? Honing your skills as a photographer, ie anticipating a moment and creating an image is a lot more important than spray and pray….

The only possible advantage that I will admit too on my A1 is the blackout free EVF. However, the times when I need to use that come with a day of retraining myself on how to choose the best af settings. I just don’t use it enough. It’s just not as enjoyable, and neither are the flat images that look like every other digital camera.

I like to just pick up the camera and use it, and that’s what my Leica’s do for me. In my studio, if I need to quickly check something I use the wireless tether to Leica fotos..it works great for me. I think it’s a great all around camera.

For my medium format work, I like the gfx II. It also “works” and wasn’t about to put up with HB’s bs… plus it has usable af, and any of my medium format work is going to be color graded anyhow…

I have 2 X2D's, 2 x X1D's, 1 x X1DII and a 907x 50c plus every available lens. I have some skin in this game.

If the tolerance change in the lens mount was an issue for you, fine. It seemed a bizarre thing to go on about to me. I don't try and rotate the lenses in the mount while using the camera and the rotational movement doesn't affect the lens operation in any way. But I get some didn't like it. My 65mm was so tight on my X1D 4116 I thought I'd rip the mount off to get the lens off the camera so the X2D seemed to be an improvement to me. I had the clicky wheels on my X1D. That was fixed by accessing the service menus. One of my X1D's has a hairline crack in the door hinge. But it's been there for 5 years and hasn't changed. I'm not actually sure which camera any more. The cameras as designed to get warm. The body shell is a heat sync by design. And that's why there's no video in the X2D. To keep the thermals under control. I think the X2D and Sl3 have the highest of build quality.

Hasselblad's problem is the same as Leica's. They don't have the resources to get the firmware sorted before release. All the 'blads came out with incomplete software. Same as the SL cameras. I had MONTHS of conversations with Leica when the 601 was released. How does a camera get sent out where TTL flash won't fire at certain shutter speeds? Leica's don't just work. The SL3 has pages of needed firmware tweaks ahead of it. I cut it some slack because I know they'll come but they're no better than Hasselblad. At least the X2D and SL3 were stable at release. Why though did Leica not put inbuilt memory into the SL3? The M11P gets 256GB of fast storage but not the SL3? And no content creation protection? Feels like they didn't let the M and SL teams talk to each other.

I have a GFX100II and GFX100S. Fine cameras. No soul. Big. A bit like the Sony of miniMF. They get the job done but it's not a whole lot of fun. And I'm retired, mostly, so fun is at the top of the list. The lenses are gargantuan. The AF is basically reserved for moving subject at half speed. I have a lovely set of lenses and there's more zooms but for some reason I don't ever choose them over the HB. Actually, the SL3 is basically replacing them. The GFX system just doesn't grab me. Buy yes. If the main criteria is to get the job done. Seems many agree with me. You can get a GFX100II anywhere. X2D's are still a bit hit and miss. And the people who like them, love them. As much as the day they got the camera. The only real griping is the lack of lens availability, which is a familiar thing to Leica shooters. Q3 anyone?

Because of user error, I dropped one of my X2D's with the 55V attached onto cobbles in Venice. You can imagine a group of 12 inhaling all at once as the camera hit the ground and bounced a few feet across a venetian square. I can tell my bodies apart now because one has a small dent in the corner. But that's it. It still works perfectly. Better actually because I got some new firmware a month later. I have a direct contact I've developed with the Australian importer. So my emails are answered same day. I've had three lenses go for a holiday to Sweeden All took around 5 weeks. One I dropped (30mm). Paid for that. One in warranty. One just out but done as a warranty job anyway.

I've had my X cameras in Cuba, Vietnam, Myanmar, India, Hong Kong, Australia, Canada, Norway and Mongolia. I've shot hundreds of jobs. Some paid and some for me. Not once has a camera of lens gone down in a shooting situation. They've paid for themselves a hundred times over. And for my use the AF is very usable. Especially with the firmware update. 

So yes. A different experience. My favourite cameras of all time. But differences are good and so is choice. It's a good time to be a photographer.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

6 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Now that I had a few shoots trying the SL3 with AFc  I can talk about the experience 

does it works? In photo mode yes, using it with 24-90 and apo summicron's

Is it accurate? Yes most of the time. Shooting moving people in fashion shoots, walking, mostly wide open it worked with face body AF. I think this is the most develop profile on the SL and S5II. Some time it looses the face and it is totally blurry, and won't catch up for 4-5 frames..

The experience if not enjoyable. When sooting continues frames and AFc you look a blurry screen most of the time. I had stop a few times and review the images and make sure something was in focus. I could not tell while shooting. 
 

at 2fps with af-c I got a hit rate of 80% on the swing

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A fair and accurate assessment. 

I think (and hope) it'll improve. But it should have been better at release.

Gordon

[SrMi]

17 hours ago, Jim B said:

Hi Flash, 

 All I can say is …wow, lol. You must have gotten a good X2D because I returned mine asap. That left to right rocking lens mount made it a no go for me, and their customer service telling people the low tolerance manufacturing issue was actually designed that way was just insulting. 

The slight rotational play in the lens mount has, indeed, no effect on IQ.

17 hours ago, Jim B said:

For my medium format work, I like the gfx II. It also “works” and wasn’t about to put up with HB’s bs… plus it has usable af, and any of my medium format work is going to be color graded anyhow…

I have the GFX 100 II and most of the GF lenses, but I avoid using the GFX system as much as I can. If Leica systems appeal to you, you should understand why.

My preference is SL3, M11, X2D, and then Z8, A1, a7cr.

[thebarnman]

Did I read or hear (possibly on YouTube) there's a feature that tries to clean the sensor if there's dust on it?  Does so by vibrating it?  If so, sounds like that's kind of harsh but I have no idea how durable a sensor can be.    

I'm still a film user but I'm thinking of getting into the digital realm with the SL3.  For those who have been shooting digitally for a while, how much dust gets on your sensor when you change lenses?  Is it a problem or is there a way to avoid getting dust onto the sensor?      

Edited May 10, 2024 by thebarnman

[SrMi]

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2 hours ago, thebarnman said:

Did I read or hear (possibly on YouTube) there's a feature that tries to clean the sensor if there's dust on it?  Does so by vibrating it?  If so, sounds like that's kind of harsh but I have no idea how durable a sensor can be.    

I'm still a film user but I'm thinking of getting into the digital realm with the SL3.  For those who have been shooting digitally for a while, how much dust gets on your sensor when you change lenses?  Is it a problem or is there a way to avoid getting dust onto the sensor?      

Many cameras have a feature that vibrates either part or the whole sensor to get rid of the dust. Many do it automatically at start-up or shut down. Leica SL3 does it only on demand.

[Photoworks]

8 hours ago, thebarnman said:

Did I read or hear (possibly on YouTube) there's a feature that tries to clean the sensor if there's dust on it?  Does so by vibrating it?  If so, sounds like that's kind of harsh but I have no idea how durable a sensor can be.    

I'm still a film user but I'm thinking of getting into the digital realm with the SL3.  For those who have been shooting digitally for a while, how much dust gets on your sensor when you change lenses?  Is it a problem or is there a way to avoid getting dust onto the sensor?      

My old Canon 5D III has this future. That camera has been used so much and still works perfectly.

On the SL3 camera keep in mind that the sensor is always floating and made durably.

That said it is good to have the shake, but does not always come off and it need a blower and or a wipe.

In the never cameras the cover glass is more distant from the sensor, to minimize the influence.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

19 hours ago, thebarnman said:

Did I read or hear (possibly on YouTube) there's a feature that tries to clean the sensor if there's dust on it?  Does so by vibrating it?  If so, sounds like that's kind of harsh but I have no idea how durable a sensor can be.    

I'm still a film user but I'm thinking of getting into the digital realm with the SL3.  For those who have been shooting digitally for a while, how much dust gets on your sensor when you change lenses?  Is it a problem or is there a way to avoid getting dust onto the sensor?      

If you are new to digital this is something you'll need to get used to. ALL sensors generate a small electrostatic charge and dust WILL find its way to the sensor occasionally. You don't get a fresh sensor with each shot like you do with film.

Learning to clean a sensor is essential. Mostly it's just using a feature like the built in shake and having a rocket blower is enough. But occasionally you'll need to use a sensor brush or do a wet clean. The first time you do a wet clean is terrifying. After that it's no big deal.

Gordon

[Simone_DF]

On 5/2/2024 at 3:50 PM, Simone_DF said:

Unfortunately it has become the norm to release half-baked products with a flaky software base. Ship now, update later is the new mantra.

And here is a brand new member to add to the long list of enshittification of SW/HW releases:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/9/24152675/sonos-new-app-bad-reviews-response-statement

[HPFM]

interesting... today took a few "wildlife-shots" with my brand-new SL3 / SL 100-400. The "animal detection" AF isn't disturbed by branches.... good job IMO

Had a lot of trouble in the past trying these shots with my SL2 (which I still own...)

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Edited May 13, 2024 by HPFM

[thebarnman]

15 hours ago, HPFM said:

interesting... today took a few "wildlife-shots" with my brand-new SL3 / SL 100-400. The "animal detection" AF isn't disturbed by branches.... good job IMO

Had a lot of trouble in the past trying these shots with my SL2 (which I still own...)

 

Amazing, I've been looking through the SL3 image thread and from the looks of it I'm seeing game changing results with that combo of camera and SL lens.  Most if not all the bird shots over there are incredibly sharp on the eye.  It's the best I've ever seen.    

[simonoz]

I've been told by a camera tech you should never use a blower to clean the sensor of any camera as it pushes the dirt further in and behind the sensor. I had a SL2 that had dust all behind the sensor which I was told because I used a blower brush. shoot a shot at f16 into the sun and you will see. The only safe way to do it is with a magnetic brush like a arctic butterly.

[DirkZ]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb simonoz:

I've been told by a camera tech you should never use a blower to clean the sensor of any camera

Yes, there are also lots of experts recommending the opposite. Lots of different opinios and confusion. I don't care. I use the blower to remove dust from the sensor. And from time to time I do cleaning with a swap and fluid.

Edited May 20, 2024 by DirkZ

[DirkZ]

How is the experience with the SL3 and shooting people wearing glasses? Does the SL3 detect the eye or not? With my Lumix S5II it doesn't work. As soon I shoot people wearing glasses the face/eye-detection doesn't work in most cases.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

9 hours ago, simonoz said:

I've been told by a camera tech you should never use a blower to clean the sensor of any camera as it pushes the dirt further in and behind the sensor. I had a SL2 that had dust all behind the sensor which I was told because I used a blower brush. shoot a shot at f16 into the sun and you will see. The only safe way to do it is with a magnetic brush like a arctic butterly.

The correct technique is to hold the camera with the mount facing down when using a blower. Mostly the dust settles after getting blown so face the mount down and it falls out of the camera. If you face it up the dust stays in the camera. I'm not keen on canned air or compressor guns. If a Giotto Rocket isn't moving enough air, then go to the next step. An Arctic Butterfly.

I like my Butterfly but it's not always practical to use it in the field.

Gordon

[SrMi]

On 5/20/2024 at 1:49 PM, simonoz said:

I've been told by a camera tech you should never use a blower to clean the sensor of any camera as it pushes the dirt further in and behind the sensor. I had a SL2 that had dust all behind the sensor which I was told because I used a blower brush. shoot a shot at f16 into the sun and you will see. The only safe way to do it is with a magnetic brush like a arctic butterly.

The blower removes dust from the sensor. It should be done with the camera upside down, as this is the safest way to remove dust. Do not use compressed air, though. I do not see how a blower could push through the glass into the sensor. I have been using blowers for an eternity, and f/16 or f/22 tests show a clean sensor. I'd recommend a sensor loupe to quickly check before adjusting the blower's direction. 

The Arctic Butterfly is an excellent second step, but it has the danger of smearing.

How do you notice dust behind the sensor? The area behind the sensor should only be visible if you remove the sensor. 

[lightsourcekauai]

SL3 with VE 90-280

AFc, People profile, 4 frames per second.

Hit focus and tracked surfers nearly 100% of the time. I was getting 10 out of 10 hits on successive bursts. I was very pleased. Giddy, actually, at how precise, effective, and pleasurable it was to use when photographing these local surfers at a nearby break.

pic 1

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[lightsourcekauai]

SL3 with VE 90-280

AFc, People profile, 4 frames per second.

Hit focus and tracked surfers nearly 100% of the time. I was getting 10 out of 10 hits on successive bursts. I was very pleased. Giddy, actually, at how precise, effective, and pleasurable it was to use when photographing these local surfers at a nearby break.

pic 2

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[lightsourcekauai]

SL3 with VE 90-280

AFc, People profile, 4 frames per second.

Hit focus and tracked surfers nearly 100% of the time. I was getting 10 out of 10 hits on successive bursts. I was very pleased. Giddy, actually, at how precise, effective, and pleasurable it was to use when photographing these local surfers at a nearby break.

pic 3

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!